Barclay Tagg's comments on NoBiz

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by Benevolus

Haskin is clueless. Nobiz doesn't even have the most e turn of foot in his own barn. Nobiz is slow. All these writers that hyped Nobiz for some reason earlier in the year are covering their butt. Nobiz is not in the BC Mile because he is not that fast.

How much faster than the 34 and 4 he came home in do you want him to run?

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

How much faster than the 34 and 4 he came home in do you want him to run?

The Belmont turf is so hard that maidens are running 6f in 108 and change. His race was not that fast and he is still nothing more than a 95-100 beyer horse. The 3yr old turf horses in america are terrible as usual, but Nobiz can't compete with the top turf horses in the world or even america. Horses like Kitten's Joy, Showing Up, and even Kip Deville were much faster 3yr old turf horses. Nobiz is just well placed by a trainer that understands that horse can't compete with the top dirt horses or the top grass horses. He could move up next year, like an After Market did, but if you look at the career of Nobiz, he appears to be no faster today than he was at 2.

Right now, Nobiz would stand for about $7500. That is it. A son of Albert the Great just won't fetch much. A grade 3 winning son of AP Indy would fetch more than a grade 1 winning son of Albert the Great, especially if he is viewed as a turf sire.

I could see Nobiz in Florida or NY, not KY.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Benevolus

Right now, Nobiz would stand for about $7500. That is it. A son of Albert the Great just won't fetch much. A grade 3 winning son of AP Indy would fetch more than a grade 1 winning son of Albert the Great, especially if he is viewed as a turf sire.

I could see Nobiz in Florida or NY, not KY.

Nobiz has 'nobiz' in KY, is that what you're saying? I kid.

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Nobiz has 'nobiz' in KY, is that what you're saying? I kid.

Exactly. With his name maybe they should stand him in CA or NY.

He is a nice horse but all the hype around a horse that is clearly a notch below the top horses is puzzling.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by Benevolus

Right now, Nobiz would stand for about $7500. That is it. A son of Albert the Great just won't fetch much. A grade 3 winning son of AP Indy would fetch more than a grade 1 winning son of Albert the Great, especially if he is viewed as a turf sire.

I could see Nobiz in Florida or NY, not KY.

Who care's what you think he would stand for right now? Last time I checked he'll be racing next month. He's a 3 YO for Christmas sake. Not every horse has "has done enough" by the summer of their sophomore season. Everybody screams and cries about horses retiring early (Hard Spun, Street Sense, Any Given Saturday, etc...) just let him be and enjoy him. He's run 3 times on turf and has won 2 grade 2's and a grade 3. Maybe he will turn into a nice sound grass horse that we can have around for a few years. You can worry about how much he'll fetch after he accomplishes something worth discussing.

Originally Posted by Benevolus

The Belmont turf is so hard that maidens are running 6f in 108 and change. His race was not that fast and he is still nothing more than a 95-100 beyer horse. The 3yr old turf horses in america are terrible as usual, but Nobiz can't compete with the top turf horses in the world or even america. Horses like Kitten's Joy, Showing Up, and even Kip Deville were much faster 3yr old turf horses. Nobiz is just well placed by a trainer that understands that horse can't compete with the top dirt horses or the top grass horses. He could move up next year, like an After Market did, but if you look at the career of Nobiz, he appears to be no faster today than he was at 2.

What is wrong with the 102 beyer he earned under a hand ride on Saturday?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

What is wrong with the 102 beyer he earned under a hand ride on Saturday?

Don't get too caught up in the hand ride aspect of a race with extremely fast finishing fractions. The fast final fractions means it was extremely unlikely he would have gone any faster under urging.

[miraja2]

Well in a couple of years we won't have this problem because there will probably be a 9f turf race for 3YOs that will be considered a BC race. Maybe there will even be a special BC race restricted to Albert the Great's offspring.
Once they decide that they need to expand the Breeders Cup to 70 different races contested over an entire week, all of these problems will be eliminated.

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

Who care's what you think he would stand for right now? Last time I checked he'll be racing next month. He's a 3 YO for Christmas sake. Not every has "has done enough" by the summer of their sophomore season. Everybody screams and cries about horses retiring early (Hard Spun, Street Sense, Any Given Saturday, etc...) just let him be and enjoy him. He's run 3 times on turf and has won 2 grade 2's and a grade 3. Maybe he will turn into a nice sound grass horse that we can have around for a few years. You can worry about how much he'll fetch after he accomplishes something worth discussing.





What is wrong with the 102 beyer he earned under a hand ride on Saturday?

He is coming back next year in part because he has no choice. There is no way he could fill a book. As for his 102 beyer, it fits perfectly for what he is. A horse that is a notch below the top horses. Combine that with his average pedigree and he is worth little at stud. It is just hilarious how much hype this horse gets. He is the product of a trainer that knows how to place his horses. A solid horse on dirt and turf. Nothing more.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Benevolus

It is just hilarious how much hype this horse gets. He is the product of a trainer that knows how to place his horses. A solid horse on dirt and turf. Nothing more.

Does he really get a lot of hype? He typically doesn't on this board.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Benevolus

He is coming back next year in part because he has no choice. There is no way he could fill a book. As for his 102 beyer, it fits perfectly for what he is. A horse that is a notch below the top horses. Combine that with his average pedigree and he is worth little at stud. It is just hilarious how much hype this horse gets. He is the product of a trainer that knows how to place his horses. A solid horse on dirt and turf. Nothing more.

I felt the same way until the Jamaica. He showed me there that he may turn out to be a very good horse on the turf. We will have to wait and see.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by Benevolus

He is coming back next year in part because he has no choice. There is no way he could fill a book. As for his 102 beyer, it fits perfectly for what he is. A horse that is a notch below the top horses. Combine that with his average pedigree and he is worth little at stud. It is just hilarious how much hype this horse gets. He is the product of a trainer that knows how to place his horses. A solid horse on dirt and turf. Nothing more.

So am I to assume that horses don't mature in your world after 3? How about if he is still learning? Is that a possibility? Castellano had to yank him to the outside pretty hard, what happens when he figures it ALL out and gets there on his own? What has this horse done to make people dislike him so much?

[King Glorious]

People complain about the small fields in the big races these days but then when we have a horse that could likely be one of the five or six best horses in the race, for the $5 million BC Classic, people are saying it's stupid to consider him. So should any horse that's not considered one of those top five or six also be withdrawn from consideration also and just search for an easier spot, maybe the Cigar or the Clark? Yeah, let's leave the Classic with a five horse field because it's no use taking a shot if u aren't one of the top five.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

People complain about the small fields in the big races these days but then when we have a horse that could likely be one of the five or six best horses in the race, for the $5 million BC Classic, people are saying it's stupid to consider him. So should any horse that's not considered one of those top five or six also be withdrawn from consideration also and just search for an easier spot, maybe the Cigar or the Clark? Yeah, let's leave the Classic with a five horse field because it's no use taking a shot if u aren't one of the top five.

I think there can be a difference between what we would like to see as fans/horseplayers and what we think the connections should do with their horses.
As a fan (and somebody who plans on playing the BC races) I would like to see full fields for every race. I would love for Nobiz to be in a BC race - especially the classic - because it is more fun to see a race with a big field and because some people would probably be foolish enough to bet some money on him.
The fact that, as a fan, I would like to see him in the race does not mean that I have to think it would be a smart decision on the part of his connections to actually enter him in the race.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

People complain about the small fields in the big races these days but then when we have a horse that could likely be one of the five or six best horses in the race, for the $5 million BC Classic, people are saying it's stupid to consider him. So should any horse that's not considered one of those top five or six also be withdrawn from consideration also and just search for an easier spot, maybe the Cigar or the Clark? Yeah, let's leave the Classic with a five horse field because it's no use taking a shot if u aren't one of the top five.

It is foolish because there are much better alternatives. If they run in a BC race he clearly should be in the Mile. The BC Turf is probably the second choice. However, Tagg, who is one of the great trainers in the game, has said he is pointing to the Grade 1 Hollywood Derby. He isn't leaving this horse in the barn, and never has, but instead has picked one good spot for him after another. Yet, somehow people here apparently know better than he does where and when he should run the horse.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It is foolish because there are much better alternatives. If they run in a BC race he clearly should be in the Mile. The BC Turf is probably the second choice. However, Tagg, who is one of the great trainers in the game, has said he is pointing to the Grade 1 Hollywood Derby. He isn't leaving this horse in the barn, and never has, but instead has picked one good spot for him after another. Yet, somehow people here apparently know better than he does where and when he should run the horse.

I'm not saying where he SHOULD run his horse or when. I'm only saying that I don't think the Classic as a thought, is a stupid one. I'm not sure that I believe that the Mile is clearly his best race if he were to be in the BC. The horse has won six stakes in his career and all but one have been at 9f. I'd have more confidence in him competing in the Classic than dropping down to compete in the Mile. Not much more confident but a little more.

Of course, I know that Tagg is much better suited to charting a course for his horse than I am. I'm not stupid. If he feels the Hollywood Derby is the better spot for him, then by all means go there. But I do think that if he's not totally closing the door on the BC, the Classic is worth considering.

[KY_Sasquash]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It is foolish because there are much better alternatives. If they run in a BC race he clearly should be in the Mile. The BC Turf is probably the second choice. However, Tagg, who is one of the great trainers in the game, has said he is pointing to the Grade 1 Hollywood Derby. He isn't leaving this horse in the barn, and never has, but instead has picked one good spot for him after another. Yet, somehow people here apparently know better than he does where and when he should run the horse.

I agree Tagg is a great trainer and nowhere am I telling Tagg how to train his horse. I was merely stating an opinion that as a fan would like to see him run in the Classic. None on the top contenders look like Ghostzapper to me. The race could be run 5 times and there could 5 different winners b/c the top contenders are pretty equal so I dont think it would be the craziest idea.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by KY_Sasquash

I agree Tagg is a great trainer and nowhere am I telling Tagg how to train his horse. I was merely stating an opinion that as a fan would like to see him run in the Classic. None on the top contenders look like Ghostzapper to me. The race could be run 5 times and there could 5 different winners b/c the top contenders are pretty equal so I dont think it would be the craziest idea.

But he still wouldn't be one of them.

[KY_Sasquash]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

But he still wouldn't be one of them.

neither did Volponi, Cat Thief and Arcangues among others

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

But he still wouldn't be one of them.

Precisely. There's a difference between a race that's wide open due to an abundance of talent and one that's wide open because of a dearth of talent. This year's Classic is the former and Nobiz would be one of the slowest horses in the field because of it.