Patriots punishment

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by docicu3

The actual check will come from Coach Bill but it will also circle back to him
within the year. The whole thing is a joke and mark my words Coach Bill already knows who else has crossed this line and there will be more "announcement" of new violations that will come from "a source close to the NFL" etc etc

If everyone is doing it is it really a big deal? I mean they were videotaping the other teams signs, not poisioning the gatorade. I guess I may be stupid but I assumed that they were all doing this anyway.

[skippy3481]

Yes its a big deal. Just because a good deal of people do it does not make it right. Videotaping signs can be a huge deal. If you know what defense they are calling in, you have a massive advantage. It matters not who else or how many have done it. It's illegal to do it and they were caught, they deserve whatever they get.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by skippy3481

Yes its a big deal. Just because a good deal of people do it does not make it right. Videotaping signs can be a huge deal. If you know what defense they are calling in, you have a massive advantage. It matters not who else or how many have done it. It's illegal to do it and they were caught, they deserve whatever they get.

Dancing in the end zone and wearing loose socks are illegal in the NFL too.

I still think the whole thing is overblown. I dont think there is a massive advantage. There is only so many things a defense can do. Most of what they do is to react to what the offense does. I suppose Indy is cheating too since Peyton seems to change plays about every play.

[Danzig]

maybe mangini thought he could win regardless. maybe he got embarrassed to find that wasn't the case. after all, he and the pats met three times last year, would be somewhat safe to say that it may happen again this year.
zabe on fox sports had a compelling argument as to why it was a big deal, as well as why mangini owes his loyalty to his new employers, and not his old coach.

my big question tho, is what does this do to tom brady? something not really getting much mention, how good is a QB who knows, doesn't just think, but KNOWS what the defense is going to do? is he tainted now? i would think the scandal would have to have an affect on him, his reputation, his legacy.
i always thought he was a good one. now i'm not so sure. how much was he helped? perhaps bonds can loan him one of those asterisks...

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by skippy3481

Yes its a big deal. Just because a good deal of people do it does not make it right. Videotaping signs can be a huge deal. If you know what defense they are calling in, you have a massive advantage. It matters not who else or how many have done it. It's illegal to do it and they were caught, they deserve whatever they get.

$750,000 in fines and loss of a 1st round draft pick.

i agree.

[BillW]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If everyone is doing it is it really a big deal? I mean they were videotaping the other teams signs, not poisioning the gatorade. I guess I may be stupid but I assumed that they were all doing this anyway.

From what I understand the league covered this specific violation in their yearly training camp tour to review new rules, violations, league policies etc. just a few weeks before the start of the season. I guess it pissed them off that he just thumbed his nose at them.

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If everyone is doing it is it really a big deal? I mean they were videotaping the other teams signs, not poisioning the gatorade. I guess I may be stupid but I assumed that they were all doing this anyway.

They are all doing it and it seems a bit nuts that one of Bill's former coaches set him up like this. Having said that the penalty seems excessive but as a Pats fan that shouldn't surprise.

At least the antisoundbite wasn't hit with this penalty.....

http://sports.aol.com/story/_a/mclar...13151409990023

[golfer]

Here's the problem: They all say it had little to no impact on Sunday's game, so why was Belicheat doing it? You know he will not explain what they were doing and why. But we are all supposed to believe that it didn't help, much?
If the Commisioner is truly interested in the integrity of the game, he should have forced a full explanation from Belichicken.
Basically, it's "we have no comment, but take my word for it that it was no big deal". Well, I have a big problem taking Belichump's word for it, especially when he's not talking.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by golfer

Here's the problem: They all say it had little to no impact on Sunday's game, so why was Belicheat doing it? You know he will not explain what they were doing and why. But we are all supposed to believe that it didn't help, much?
If the Commisioner is truly interested in the integrity of the game, he should have forced a full explanation from Belichicken.
Basically, it's "we have no comment, but take my word for it that it was no big deal". Well, I have a big problem taking Belichump's word for it, especially when he's not talking.

Thank you - that was fun

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If everyone is doing it is it really a big deal? I mean they were videotaping the other teams signs, not poisioning the gatorade. I guess I may be stupid but I assumed that they were all doing this anyway.

can the same be said about horse trainers drugging horses?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pointman

can the same be said about horse trainers drugging horses?

Not even in the same ballpark.

The one question I have that no one seems to be asking is that if Mangini was aware that his signals were being stolen, why didn't he simply change them from game to game? Wouldn't the other team having faulty information actually be an advantage for the Jets?

Mangini obviously would think of this which leads me to believe that he just wanted for Belichik to get caught, not that he thought that the Pats would actually gain a signifigant advantage from them

[golfer]

[quote=Cannon Shell]Not even in the same ballpark.

The one question I have that no one seems to be asking is that if Mangini was aware that his signals were being stolen, why didn't he simply change them from game to game? Wouldn't the other team having faulty information actually be an advantage for the Jets?

Mangini obviously would think of this which leads me to believe that he just wanted for Belichik to get caught, not that he thought that the Pats would actually gain a signifigant advantage from them[/QUOTE]

Chuck, I'm sorry to say this is an extremely valid point, and while it does not absolve Belichek of cheating, makes me feel a whole lot worse about the woeful performance of the Jets defense last week.

[Cannon Shell]

[quote=golfer]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Not even in the same ballpark.

The one question I have that no one seems to be asking is that if Mangini was aware that his signals were being stolen, why didn't he simply change them from game to game? Wouldn't the other team having faulty information actually be an advantage for the Jets?

Mangini obviously would think of this which leads me to believe that he just wanted for Belichik to get caught, not that he thought that the Pats would actually gain a signifigant advantage from them[/QUOTE]

Chuck, I'm sorry to say this is an extremely valid point, and while it does not absolve Belichek of cheating, makes me feel a whole lot worse about the woeful performance of the Jets defense last week.

At least you pawned off Herm and got something in return which seems to be one of the great front office deals in a long time.

[golfer]

Herman Edwards is a wonderful human being, a quality motivational speaker, and a below average football coach. By the way, You Play to Win the Game, but sometimes you coach not to lose.

[Samarta]

[quote=golfer]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Not even in the same ballpark.

The one question I have that no one seems to be asking is that if Mangini was aware that his signals were being stolen, why didn't he simply change them from game to game? Wouldn't the other team having faulty information actually be an advantage for the Jets?

Mangini obviously would think of this which leads me to believe that he just wanted for Belichik to get caught, not that he thought that the Pats would actually gain a signifigant advantage from them[/QUOTE]

Chuck, I'm sorry to say this is an extremely valid point, and while it does not absolve Belichek of cheating, makes me feel a whole lot worse about the woeful performance of the Jets defense last week.

Or maybe because they all do it......

[SentToStud]

The penalties put on NE are a joke. $750k in fines, $500k to Belechik is chump change and the coach's fine will get passed on through a bonus. Wade Wilson got suspended and fined for being a coach who some time ago got some HGH.

Belechik should have got suspended for four games and the team fined $10 million.

[Danzig]

[quote=Samarta]

Originally Posted by golfer

Or maybe because they all do it......

the most over-used and abused 'justification' there is....i don't believe everybody does it, just like i don't believe everyone steals from their employer, cheats on their spouse, etc. but the ones who do it seem to think so!

[Samarta]

[quote=Danzig]

Originally Posted by Samarta

the most over-used and abused 'justification' there is....i don't believe everybody does it, just like i don't believe everyone steals from their employer, cheats on their spouse, etc. but the ones who do it seem to think so!

The justification mentioned in my response came from an interview I saw on MSN this morning where a NFL beat reporter commented on the behind the ropes jokes that are going on about this and how it's widely used throughout the league. It reminded me of the interview that Carl Lewis did after he was awarded the gold medal for the Olympic 100 meters because Ben Johnson had a positive drug test. Carl Lewis's comment was that he couldn't believe how anyone could get caught because they all know how to cycle in and cycle out of steriods to beat the testing and when someone gets caught it's simply out of stupidity.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The one question I have that no one seems to be asking is that if Mangini was aware that his signals were being stolen, why didn't he simply change them from game to game? Wouldn't the other team having faulty information actually be an advantage for the Jets?

Yeah.

The people who think any of this impacted this game are totally insane.

This game featured a 108 yard kickoff return for a TD by NE - a 51 yard bomb NE TD to a reciever who was being TRIPLE covered on the play.

The signal stealing might have helped them in a game later on in the season, not this one.

New England always looks like a vastly improved team when they play teams for a second or third time in the same season - the Colts and Steelers know that as well as anyone.

However, I don't think stealing signals are the real reason for that.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yeah.

The people who think any of this impacted this game are totally insane.

This game featured a 108 yard kickoff return for a TD by NE - a 51 yard bomb NE TD to a reciever who was being TRIPLE covered on the play.

The signal stealing might have helped them in a game later on in the season, not this one.

New England always looks like a vastly improved team when they play teams for a second or third time in the same season - the Colts and Steelers know that as well as anyone.

However, I don't think stealing signals are the real reason for that.

maybe they'd have won this game regardless...but how many games have they won due to cheating? how tainted is their record now? how much better would it make a good team such as the pats--and if they were that good, why did he feel the need to go over the top on this, and risk so much for this game?