Whose was/is the best?

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Hey Bold, just wait for the write-up. Not trying to change your mind, but try for once to keep an open mind.

My mind is wide open ... and the record couldn't be clearer ...

... as a 2YO and 3YO Secretariat was far better than Spectacular Bid.

In 1980 ... as a 4YO ... Spectacular Bid had one of the most ... spectacular ... years any American race horse has ever had.

He was without question one of the ten best American race horses of the 20th century. The Blood-Horse panel put him at #10 ... I think that was too low ... he was definitely in the top 7 ... possibly in the top 5.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

My mind is wide open ... and the record couldn't be clearer ...

... as a 2YO and 3YO Secretariat was far better than Spectacular Bid.

In 1980 ... as a 4YO ... Spectacular Bid had one of the most ... spectacular ... years any American race horse has ever had.

He was without question one of the ten best American race horses of the 20th century. The Blood-Horse panel put him at #10 ... I think that was too low ... he was definitely in the top 7 ... possibly in the top 5.

Actually the facts point out the SB definitely had the better two year old season.

SB...9 starts, 7 wins, 1 second, two new track records.

Secretariat...9 starts, 7 wins, 1 second, no new records.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Actually the facts point out the SB definitely had the better two year old season.

SB...9 starts, 7 wins, 1 second, two new track records.

Secretariat...9 starts, 7 wins, 1 second, no new records.

Of course you leave out Secretariat's dq.....he was clearly best in the Champaign and while justified, the dq certainly makes a difference record-wise. Track records are nice, but hardly the true measure of a horse. Secretariat's Belmont...well, look at his time for 10 furlongs that day if you question the Belmont distance, not to mention folks who kept the watch on him state clearly that he broke the existing world record for 13 furlongs before he was finally able to be pulled up! At any distance, Secretariat's Belmont was the greatest single performance of the 20th century and probably in racing history!! I love the Bid but make no mistake, he was no Secretariat...only Kincsem can claim to breathe that rare air!

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Of course you leave out Secretariat's dq.....he was clearly best in the Champaign and while justified, the dq certainly makes a difference record-wise. Track records are nice, but hardly the true measure of a horse. Secretariat's Belmont...well, look at his time for 10 furlongs that day if you question the Belmont distance, not to mention folks who kept the watch on him state clearly that he broke the existing world record for 13 furlongs before he was finally able to be pulled up! At any distance, Secretariat's Belmont was the greatest single performance of the 20th century and probably in racing history!! I love the Bid but make no mistake, he was no Secretariat...only Kincsem can claim to breathe that rare air!

I was just stating that the Bid had a better two year old season than Secretariat did. And Secretariat should have been dq that day in the Champagne. He didn't set any track records in his two year old season while SB did at 5 1/2 furlongs and 1 and 1/16 mile.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I was just stating that the Bid had a better two year old season than Secretariat did. And Secretariat should have been dq that day in the Champagne. He didn't set any track records in his two year old season while SB did at 5 1/2 furlongs and 1 and 1/16 mile.

Besides if you play the using the logic of the most wins game, SB actually had a better three year old season than Secretariat did.

Spectacular Bid...12 starts, 10 wins

Secretariat...12 starts, 9 wins

While Spectacular Bid did a better two year old year than Secretariat did, I will concede that Secretariat had the better three year old year although SB also set several track records and won more races in the same number of starts.

Also, SB didn't win the only start at 12 furlongs that he ever had because he was sore. No horse can win over 12 furlongs if they had a safety pin stuck in their hoof the night before. Not even Secretariat.

Also BB, SB actually set a new track record in the Meadowlands Cup at the end of his three year old season too.

[dr. fager]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Also, SB didn't win the only start at 12 furlongs that he ever had because he was sore. No horse can win over 12 furlongs if they had a safety pin stuck in their hoof the night before. Not even Secretariat.

One of the greatest conspiricies ever, didn't the great Buddy Delp own a camera? If I was going to try to pull that one off, I'd have a photo...heck that was in the hayday of polaroids....

Right up there with the crap Jose Santos had a buzzer on Funny Cide.

Originally Posted by dr.fager

One of the greatest conspiricies ever, didn't the great Buddy Delp own a camera? If I was going to try to pull that one off, I'd have a photo...heck that was in the hayday of polaroids....

Right up there with the crap Jose Santos had a buzzer on Funny Cide.

Buddy Delp was/is a great trainer.

He did a spectacular job with Spectacular Bid. He did a great job training one of the best race horses anyone has ever seen ... but he only looks foolish with that nonsensical safety pin story.

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Also, SB didn't win the only start at 12 furlongs that he ever had because he was sore. No horse can win over 12 furlongs if they had a safety pin stuck in their hoof the night before. Not even Secretariat.

Also BB, SB actually set a new track record in the Meadowlands Cup at the end of his three year old season too.

Spectacular Bid also raced at 12f in the 1979 Jockey Club Gold Cup ... another race which he lost. There were no reports of wandering safety pins that day.

In 1979 the Meadowlands was a brand new track ... and new track records were set virtually every night. The 10f record set by Spectacular Bid was at a distance which had only been run once before in the track's history. That's another "oddball" circumstance.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Spectacular Bid also raced at 12f in the 1979 Jockey Club Gold Cup ... another race which he lost. There were no reports of wandering safety pins that day.

In 1979 the Meadowlands was a brand new track ... and new track records were set virtually every night. The 10f record set by Spectacular Bid was at a distance which had only been run once before in the track's history. That's another "oddball" circumstance.

Well, you said he only set one track record in his three year old year and were mistaken so I pointed it out.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Spectacular Bid also raced at 12f in the 1979 Jockey Club Gold Cup ... another race which he lost. There were no reports of wandering safety pins that day.

In 1979 the Meadowlands was a brand new track ... and new track records were set virtually every night. The 10f record set by Spectacular Bid was at a distance which had only been run once before in the track's history. That's another "oddball" circumstance.

He lost in 1979 against the great Affirmed who was an amazing horse and also a four year old at the time. So Spectacular Bid was a three year old racing one of racing's greatest at a time when Affirmed was unbeatable. He won six grade Is that year and never lost again after the jockey switch from Cauthen to Laffit. Spectacular Bid was gallant in defeat in the Jocky Club Gold Cup.

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I was just stating that the Bid had a better two year old season than Secretariat did. And Secretariat should have been dq that day in the Champagne. He didn't set any track records in his two year old season while SB did at 5 1/2 furlongs and 1 and 1/16 mile.

Spectacular Bid equalled the track record for 5.5f ... check it out.

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Actually the facts point out the SB definitely had the better two year old season.

SB...9 starts, 7 wins, 1 second, two new track records.

Secretariat...9 starts, 7 wins, 1 second, no new records.

You're somewhat distorting the record ...

Spectacular Bid set one track record ... and equalled another .. as a 2YO.

Secretariat finished first in 8 of 9 starts at 2 ... and had one disqualification which was unrelated to his being the best horse in the race.

Their racing styles as 2YOS were completely different ... Spectacular Bid blazing along on the front ... Secretariat loping along at the rear.

Spectacular Bid was one of a handful of truly great race horses in America in the 20th century. Isn't that more than enough? Why go overboard and try to compare him to the two horses who completely rewrote the record books ... and set new standards for the ages ... Man O' War and Secretariat?

[1st_Saturday_in_May]

Track records have lost all meaning to me after I saw Greater Good just set one at Churchill Downs.