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  #1  
Old 08-28-2007, 09:38 PM
robfla robfla is offline
Calder Race Course
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Strategically between Calder and Gulfstream
Posts: 1,892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlJim78
forget the books, I have figured out a solution for those that don't like polytrack. it really took a lot of thought, but i think i've got the answer. let me know what you think. it just might work.

Albuquerque
Aqueduct
Arapahoe Park
Assiniboia Downs
Atlantic City
Bay Meadows
Belmont Park
Beulah Park
Blue Ribbon Downs
Calder Race Course
Canterbury Park
Charles Town
Churchill Downs
Colonial Downs
Delta Downs
Delaware Park
Ellis Park
Emerald Downs
Evangeline Downs

Fair Grounds
Fair Meadows
Fairmount Park
Fairplex Park
Ferndale
Finger Lakes

Fonner Park
Fort Erie
Fresno Fair
Golden Gate Fields
Great Lakes Downs
Gulfstream Park
Hastings Park
Hawthorne
Hollywood Park
Hoosier Park
Horsemen's Park
Indiana Downs
Kentucky Downs
Les Bois Park
Lone Star Park
Los Alamitos
Louisiana Downs
Marquis Downs
Meadowlands
Monmouth Park
Mountaineer Park
Northlands Park
Oaklawn Park
Penn National
Philadelphia Park
Pimlico
Playfair
Pleasanton
Portland Meadows
Prairie Meadows
Remington Park
Retama Park
Rillito Park
River Downs
Ruidoso Downs
Sacramento
Sam Houston
Santa Anita
Santa Rosa
Saratoga
Solano
Stockton
Suffolk Downs

Sunland Park
SunRay Park
Tampa Bay Downs
Thistledown
Turf Paradise
Woodlands
Yavapai Downs
I highlighted the active tracks.

I totally agree that there are a lot of other options out there. But many casual players used to look forward to boutique meets like Del Mar and Keeneland. My handle this year at Del Mar has been 5% of what it has been in previous years. I know I can adjust or play elsewhere, but I'd rather not bet on a 3500 claimer at Yavapai, Ferndale or Finger Lakes and I am actually headed to Del Mar for the Labor Day weekend and I am sure I'll be betting almost as much as I did last year there.

Sure there are other options.. but the best option would be to bet on Del Mar with a conventional dirt track. The CHRB rushed to a judgement and made a horrible decision.
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  #2  
Old 08-28-2007, 09:56 PM
ArlJim78 ArlJim78 is offline
Newmarket
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robfla
I highlighted the active tracks.

I totally agree that there are a lot of other options out there. But many casual players used to look forward to boutique meets like Del Mar and Keeneland. My handle this year at Del Mar has been 5% of what it has been in previous years. I know I can adjust or play elsewhere, but I'd rather not bet on a 3500 claimer at Yavapai, Ferndale or Finger Lakes and I am actually headed to Del Mar for the Labor Day weekend and I am sure I'll be betting almost as much as I did last year there.

Sure there are other options.. but the best option would be to bet on Del Mar with a conventional dirt track. The CHRB rushed to a judgement and made a horrible decision.
horrible decision? based on what? i know the Delmar handle is up and I believe the same has been true for Keeneland.

not everyone is throwing in the towel.

http://www.navycompass.com/news/newsview.asp?c=223739
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  #3  
Old 08-29-2007, 12:07 AM
JJP JJP is offline
Gulfstream Park
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,220
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I'm not saying tracks like Dmr or AP are lying, but of people I talk to, nobody is increasing their handle on these tracks. No, not everyone has quit betting them and they still card grass races. But I wonder where all this new handle is coming from.

BTW, is it a coincidence that Arlington started running 1 1/16 mile races this year? They know their track is speed killing but running 2 turn races with a short run to the turn and a 700 foot stretch run does everything but hand the race on a silver platter to speed. In the past 20 years before 2007, I bet they ran a total of about 10 races at that distance. A week and a half ago they ran 6 in one day. If those races were run at a mile, the so-called even distribution of speed/stalk/closers wins would be lobsided.
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  #4  
Old 08-29-2007, 12:42 AM
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Riot Riot is offline
Keeneland
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,153
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Quote:
I'm not saying tracks like Dmr or AP are lying, but of people I talk to, nobody is increasing their handle on these tracks.
All from The Blood-Horse:

" ... Del Mar shows a 3.1% gain in its on-track handle ... Overall handle figures are even stronger, reflecting a 5.8% increase. The daily all-source handle jumped from $12,295,760 to $13,009,606."

" Keeneland ... total wagering to a record $158,368,308 during Keeneland’s 2007 spring race meeting .... The all-sources handle figure ... a more than 10% increase over the previous record of $143,479,802 set last spring.
Total wagering averaged a record $10,557,887 per day, breaking last year’s record of $9,565,320. Field size averaged 9.5 horses this spring versus 8.09 . Polytrack races also averaged 9.5 starters per race, up 21.4% from last spring. Keeneland realized substantial increases in interstate commingled wagering, which rose 14% to $125,952,284 compared to last year’s record of $110,401,486. Average daily interstate handle of $8,396,819 also topped 2006’s record level of $7,360,099. "

" After completing its second holiday meet run over a Polytrack surface in 2006, Turfway Park reported a healthy 7.5% increase in on-track wagering and an 18.7% jump in all-source handle. During the 25-day stand (Nov. 26-Dec. 31) the amount wagered on Turfway races by patrons at the track totaled $3,479,946. Handle on Turfway races from all sources reached $88,224,228. It was the fourth consecutive end-of-meet reporting period for the Florence, Ky., track to show increases in both categories and double-digit hikes in all-sources handle. The holiday meet is the last of Turfway's three annual stands. Taking all three meets together, Turfway enjoyed double-digit increases in both on-track and all-sources handle in 2006. On-track handle for the year rose 13.5% over 2005 to $15,558,289, while all-sources wagering rose 41.3% to $345,128,726. Total purses paid in 2006 increased 5.5% to $16,368,342. Field size across the year held steady at 8.8 starters per race. "

"Woodbine's all-source handle fell 8.6% in 2006, but a rebound in wagering and field size after installation of an all-weather main track has officials for the Woodbine Entertainment Group looking forward to next year. An "all-sources" total of $333,489,534 was wagered during the 162-day meet, which began April 1 and ended Dec. 10, compared to the $364,750,930 recorded in 2005. "We had a slow start to the year, but after Polytrack was installed we really noticed an improvement in our key numbers like handle and field size," said Sean Pinsonneault, Woodbine Entertainment's vice president of wagering services. "We have some momentum going into 2007." Woodbine became the first track in Canada and second in North America to install Polytrack, a synthetic racing surface which provides a soft cushion for horse and rider. Racing over Polytrack was presented for the first time on Aug. 30. To accommodate the conversion of the main track to Polytrack, Thoroughbred racing was conducted over a dirt-covered Standardbred racing oval for 29 dates, from July 8 to Aug. 27. Total handle after the Polytrack installation was a strong $157,445,000, compared to $151,152,000 in 2005, an increase of 4.2%. Average field size at Woodbine was 8.6 horses per race this year, up from 8.5 in 2005. During the Polytrack portion of the meet, 9.2 horses were carded per race, compared to 8.5 last year, an increase of 8.2%."

"The Ocala Breeders’ Sales Company (OBS) Friday announced that it is converting its one-mile racetrack to an all-weather SAFETRACK surface. Manufactured by Andrews Bowen, Ltd., the new surface will be ready for the 2008 juvenile selling season. OBS conducts four sales of 2-year-olds in training each year in Central Florida, with select sales in February and March and open sales in April and June. The track is also utilized for most of the rest of the year as a public training center, with many of the area’s horsemen taking advantage of the facility. And there is one day of racing in February. Keeneland, which has Polytrack, earlier this year became the first auction firm in North America to conduct workouts for a sale of 2-year-olds in training over a synthetic surface. OBS will be the second. "
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  #5  
Old 08-29-2007, 03:12 AM
The Indomitable DrugS's Avatar
The Indomitable DrugS The Indomitable DrugS is offline
Flemington
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,007
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Saratoga's handle gains have been stronger than Del Mar's....

And, no one cares about five furlong track records. I'm surprised you forgot to tout that multiple horses have ran a quarter mile in a world record 20 1/5th over polytrack...which happened at KEE April last year.

Polytrack is a faster surface than dirt if you just want to sprint all-out for very short distances.

However, horses can't stay a distance on it without jogging away the early stages and struggling through the late stages.
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  #6  
Old 08-29-2007, 04:04 AM
_ed_'s Avatar
_ed_ _ed_ is offline
Santa Anita
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 3,006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
However, horses can't stay a distance on it without jogging away the early stages and struggling through the late stages.
What about horses running 2:01 for 10 furlongs on Polytrack in England?
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  #7  
Old 08-29-2007, 04:43 AM
The Indomitable DrugS's Avatar
The Indomitable DrugS The Indomitable DrugS is offline
Flemington
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,007
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It's not so much the comically slow times as it is watching horses struggle with an absurd surface that makes the races look dull and boring.

Because some Euro ran a track record 2:01 and change doesn't mean he'd have won this year's Pacific Classic by six seconds -- or about a 33 length margin that the time difference indicates.

If they are going to run on that stuff -- they should make the sprint races two or three furlongs....the middle distance races about 5 furlongs tops...and the classic distance races about 7 furlongs. If they do that, I have no problem with the surface....other than I think it's bad for history to dramatically shorten up the distances of all the major prestige races....just to make them watchable.

Toss in an occasional 8.5 furlong marathon from time-to-time.

Having to watch horses race 10 furlongs over a poly surface like the one Del Mar has was cruel and unusual punishment.
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