why hard spun sucks...

[ELA]

Rick Pitino said it right -- "It takes no talent to be a critic"

Everyone knew that this horse needed to get a G1, and he did it -- and did it impressively. Find all the fault you want, knock the last 1/8th, whatever, heckle the connections for not going wherever it is you think you'd go if you owned/trained/etc. this horse.

This was an impressive race. He got pushed hard and stung early, didn't get a breather, and then got hooked by a horse laying in wait. Got hooked and put him away.

Unless you are breeding mares to him, what difference does it make whether he's at his best at a mile (and under), or if he can go X distance -- he's showed up to every dance and danced pretty well. Are you faulting a sprinter or a miler for not being able to get 9f? Futile arguement or just looking to knock.

Eric

Originally Posted by ELA

Rick Pitino said it right -- "It takes no talent to be a critic"

Everyone knew that this horse needed to get a G1, and he did it -- and did it impressively. Find all the fault you want, knock the last 1/8th, whatever, heckle the connections for not going wherever it is you think you'd go if you owned/trained/etc. this horse.

This was an impressive race. He got pushed hard and stung early, didn't get a breather, and then got hooked by a horse laying in wait. Got hooked and put him away.

Unless you are breeding mares to him, what difference does it make whether he's at his best at a mile (and under), or if he can go X distance -- he's showed up to every dance and danced pretty well. Are you faulting a sprinter or a miler for not being able to get 9f? Futile arguement or just looking to knock.

Eric

I agree, but the trainer and owner brought it upon themselves with their lies about why they were running in the race. Even the clowns at ESPN were laughing at how they were saying they went in the race because it was a good prep for their eventual plan of the Breeders Cup Classic. Don't insult my intelligence. He was in the race because they needed a grade 1 win for a bonus and they didn't want any part of Street Sense at a distance where their horse has struggled to win. It wasn't because they thought it was a good prep.

So we've decided to let him show what he's good at. We'd like to get him a Grade I win, but mostly we want to get ready for the Breeders' Cup Classic."

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Hail2Reason

I agree, but the trainer and owner brought it upon themselves with their lies about why they were running in the race. Even the clowns at ESPN were laughing at how they were saying they went in the race because it was a good prep for their eventual plan of the Breeders Cup Classic. Don't insult my intelligence. He was in the race because they needed a grade 1 win for a bonus and they didn't want any part of Street Sense at a distance where their horse has struggled to win. It wasn't because they thought it was a good prep.

It really doesn't matter. They'll say what they are going to say -- truth, lies, whatever, and your intelligence may or may not be insulted. That's part of this game. The connections of horses will never manage their horses based upon, up to, etc., other people's expectations, desires, wants, or whatever you want to call. Maybe it's no different than criticizing Steinbrenner for making an owner's move, or Torre for making a manager's move.

Be that as it may -- it doesn't matter because it had nothing to do with the horse and his performance. Why Hard Spun sucks -- what kind of thread it that. Anyone who looks to criticize this horse off that performance is just grasping at straws. He could have done this, or he could have went there, or whatever. All that talk could make winners out of all the losers at the track. Could have, should have, would have.

Eric

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Eric, It would be refreshing -- almost novel, at this point -- for people in any endeavor who appear before media to speak truthfully about their motivations. Given its rarity these days, Jones and/or Porter would be hailed as honest guys, and people might not begrudge them for the breeding deal, because, "at least they were honest."

I'd dismiss most of the negative assessments in this thread, but I'm OK with anyone wishing for plain old honesty from owners and trainers.

I hear you, and I agree. It is a shame that one aspect of the business drives the entire sport and that in a case like this, yes, this happens. I am also a realist and after being in the horse business for my entire adult, I also realize the harsh realities about what drives the business and how that impacts the sport. People will very often have, somewhat, ulterior motives. It could be as simple as "wanting to race at the Spa" or wanting to race on a particular day.

The plain old honesty, out there, up front, completely out in the open -- I guess that will happen at Fantasy Land Downs, LOL.

Eric

[SentToStud]

How much more could you ask from the Hard Spun people? They kept this horse on the track all spring and summer and came back yesterday in a Grade 1 on three weeks. They really have nothing to explain. If Porter made more money off his win yesterday, good for him. It's not as if they give Grade 1's away. Since when does a trainer or owner owe anyone an explanation for winning a Grade 1?

[sumitas]

Well, the owner is a car salesman so their reputation for lack of candor was maintained. Not to mention his outfit.

Originally Posted by sumitas

Well, the owner is a car salesman so their reputation for lack of candor was maintained. Not to mention his outfit.

Bang.
If Jones read this it would have to hurt.

[Riot]

He was in the race because they needed a grade 1 win for a bonus and they didn't want any part of Street Sense at a distance where their horse has struggled to win.

They made an intelligent and profitable financial decision, they made a sound management decision for the horse based upon his abilities, and the trainer prepared the horse so that he blew his competition out of the water in a great race.

What jerks!

Seems maybe the horse and the connections are treated as one.
I think the animal should be treated as the athlete and when an outstanding performance is exhibited its good for racing.

Its hard to hate the horse for me, but easy to dislike owners, or trainers of some. Heck I loved Congaree but Baffert was/is not my favorite for whatever reason.

[herkhorse]

Horses never suck, only some people

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by herkhorse

Horses never suck, only some people

so true. some people make it extremely difficult to root for their horses. i never appreciated the bid much when he was racing, as i thought bud delp...well, you're not supposed to speak ill of the dead so i'll leave it at that.

i'd like curlin a lot more if he was with someone else. well, at least i wouldn't mind when he won so much!

[Bobby Fischer]

on racing record - You have to judge Curlin to get a standard for where Hard Spun belongs. If you consider Curlin the 1st or 2nd best racing 3yo, that bodes well for Hard Spun to be closely ranked. Both times Hard Spun didn't have a garbage ride he beat Curlin. To be fair, you have to consider Curlin's garbage ride in the Derby where Albarado asked nothing out of the gate, and was left with a lot of work, when he could have loomed in the pocket that Sedgefield enjoyed. You also have to be realistic that even a decent ride for Hard Spun in the Preakness would have likely left him short of the top two that day.
Do you rank the Pletcher move-up AGS 3rd best or HS? Up to you. Maybe it comes down to specific distances with these two. Saturday is clearly more explosive in the last two races and possibly better than 3rd best for pure racing ability right now. We wait to see if AGS will revert back to his natural ability under a stressful 10 panels in the BC Classic.

on physicallity - Hard Spun is the best 3yo dirt animal. He made Curlin look like a donkey head-to-head in the Haskell paddock, and Curlin is a big boy himself! HS is a superior animal. This is no runt. Street Sense and Curlin are beautiful horses, but Hard Spun is a cut above.

on pedigree - His pedigree is pretty good. A little hard to compare pedigrees, but I don't know that I would rank Hard Spun necessarily top-5 of the 3yos. He could easily turn out to be. Will be interesting to see if they breed him with any classy turf producers as well.

[ELA]

I don't like to get into the debates, however, in this case I'll throw my hat in the ring. First, and don't attack me for saying this, however, I was never -- never -- a fan of Hard Spun . . . not until Saturday. For whatever, reason, I just wasn't a fan. I didn't think he'd be there in the Derby, but could be in the Preakness. Regardless, I think unlike many others, I can bifurcate "betting" from who I like, am rooting for, etc. Regardless as well, I had the exacta both ways.

After the trip he got, and doing what he did -- at a certain point, coming down the stretch on Saturday, I was rooting for this horse. Prior to this race, like I said, I was never a fan. One thing I did think was that he was the "toughest" of the 3yo's. How can you not appreciate showing up to every dance, time and time again, doing the dirty work for the most part, and accomplishing what this colt has accomplished. Are there things people can knock him on? Sure, it's always easy to be a critic (thanks to Rick Pitino for the line). I am sure some will say he should have gotten third in the Belmont. Whatever, doesn't matter. Saturday should have turned critics into fans.

Curlin -- I think Curlin had an incredible amount of talent and potential. I thought, he had the most "natural" or "raw" talent. Doing what he did -- in his third, fourth, fifth, and sixth lifetime stars? He was hanging and banging with the best colts going -- like them or not -- as an unseasoned, inexperienced colt. I just thought this horse was getting better, learning, moving forward, and getting tougher. I thought that if he kept going, we could see one hell of a horse come summer -- if and only if he didn't fall victim to "too much too soon" and I am not sure if that was/is the case. This horse had incredible talent. He was asked for a great deal, very early on. His Monmouth race was enigmatic to some extent. Sure, I would have liked to see a more "even" track and would have liked to see him "run" and put in more of a "run", but it is what it is.

Street Sense -- what do you have to say about this horse. Are some going to fault him for not winning the Preakness? I am sure they are. Will some/many fault him for not showing up to the Belmont? I think so, and personally I think that's ludicrous. Will they question the Travers? I guess so as well.

Any Given Saturday -- I liked him in the Monmouth race. I thought he could beat Curlin only because of the track, the way it plays, etc. I thought Curlin, if he (and the talent/ability) showed up could overcome it. I did not think AGS was THAT kind of horse. I think in that race, he overachieved and outran what I thought he could do all things considered. I know a lot of people, people's who have opinion I respect, horsemen, trainers, jockeys, handicappers, who share the same opinion. That performance was a bit of a surprise. Maybe he turned the corner and stepped up. I guess we will soon see.

Anway, I hope all of them come back sound, fit, healthy and we can see them all at their best.

Eric

[SentToStud]

Bifurcate.... don't see that one used much these days.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Bifurcate.... don't see that one used much these days.

Segment?

OK, seperate (I don't have spell-checker and actually wasn't sure about the spelling, LOL).

Eric

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by ELA

Segment?

OK, seperate (I don't have spell-checker and actually wasn't sure about the spelling, LOL).

Eric

You used it right (I think). I'm keeping it handy for use at the right time....