why hard spun sucks...

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He was 2nd in the Kentucky Derby, which is ten furlongs, and would not have lossed if Street Sense hadn't been allowed to pass 17 horses up the rail without getting stopped.

By the way, even after a stumble, Hard Spun was gaining on Street Sense in the last 100 yards of the Derby.

He's only less effective going a Classic distance when he's NOT ALLOWED to lead due to incompetent rating tactics by his rider -- or horses like Flying First Class and XChanger setting an insane pace.

In the King's Bishop, over a Saratoga track that was not that fast (Street Sense got a 109 Beyer for running a moderate 2:02.70) -- Hard Spun was pressing the pace setter through fractions of 21 and change and 44 1/5ths, while pulling against his rider....

If he can't fully relax when denied the lead, while up on a very hot pace, in a Grade 1 sprint race -- how is he supposed to see out a classic distance when denied the lead and pulling -- at distances much longer?

Do people even realize that through a series of unlikely circumstances this horse WASN'T on the early in the Preakness, WASN'T on the early lead in the Belmont, and WASN'T on the early lead in the Haskell.

Does anyone think a similar styled horse like Commentator was capable of doing anything at a route distance while denied the lead? When allowed to run off on a loose lead in the Whitney, Commentator defeated Horse of the Year Saint Liam in very fast time.

what was the unlikely circumstance in the Haskell? Hard Spun ran the race his own way in hand, took the lead heading for home and was inhaled by Any Given Saturday.

These circumstances that cause him to be denied every time are called racing. If its happens every time he routes can you really attribute it to special circumstances, or is it more likely that it will be hard for Hard Spun to find a GR1 route race wherein he is handed an uncontested lead in moderate fractions. To me that is the more unlikely circumstance.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

what was the unlikely circumstance in the Haskell?

He stumbled coming out of the gate...and was drawn outside of the undefeated one-dimensional Cable Boy....who needed the lead to have any shot.

So, after the stumble, had Pino not put Hard Spun to stout restraint, he would have found himself in a bitter head-to-head speed duel.

Hard Spun got loose in the Kentucky Derby -- in a race over-flowing with speed horses -- he is fast enough to get loose in virtually all Grade 1 route races.

However, his connections have been afraid to use his only real weapon (his natural speed) since the Derby. They decided they had to use it in the King's Bishop...because Hard Spun has never had dirt kicked in his face before, and horses often struggle from the off-the-pace when expieriencing that for the first time.

At this time of the year, all these silly one-dimensional sprinter/milers like Flying First Class and Cable Boy have proven they aren't Grade 1 routers -- and the pace of these big races often start to get much slower.

[Riot]

Good lawd, the horse ran an impressive race - he was all in, and battled back gamely, and won that race on ability and class. He was still blowing incredibly in the winners' circle, wringing with sweat. Good placement, and good job, by Jones!

[Cannon Shell]

Plus I bet on him and he still won!

[ELA]

Rick Pitino said it right -- "It takes no talent to be a critic"

Everyone knew that this horse needed to get a G1, and he did it -- and did it impressively. Find all the fault you want, knock the last 1/8th, whatever, heckle the connections for not going wherever it is you think you'd go if you owned/trained/etc. this horse.

This was an impressive race. He got pushed hard and stung early, didn't get a breather, and then got hooked by a horse laying in wait. Got hooked and put him away.

Unless you are breeding mares to him, what difference does it make whether he's at his best at a mile (and under), or if he can go X distance -- he's showed up to every dance and danced pretty well. Are you faulting a sprinter or a miler for not being able to get 9f? Futile arguement or just looking to knock.

Eric

Originally Posted by ELA

Rick Pitino said it right -- "It takes no talent to be a critic"

Everyone knew that this horse needed to get a G1, and he did it -- and did it impressively. Find all the fault you want, knock the last 1/8th, whatever, heckle the connections for not going wherever it is you think you'd go if you owned/trained/etc. this horse.

This was an impressive race. He got pushed hard and stung early, didn't get a breather, and then got hooked by a horse laying in wait. Got hooked and put him away.

Unless you are breeding mares to him, what difference does it make whether he's at his best at a mile (and under), or if he can go X distance -- he's showed up to every dance and danced pretty well. Are you faulting a sprinter or a miler for not being able to get 9f? Futile arguement or just looking to knock.

Eric

I agree, but the trainer and owner brought it upon themselves with their lies about why they were running in the race. Even the clowns at ESPN were laughing at how they were saying they went in the race because it was a good prep for their eventual plan of the Breeders Cup Classic. Don't insult my intelligence. He was in the race because they needed a grade 1 win for a bonus and they didn't want any part of Street Sense at a distance where their horse has struggled to win. It wasn't because they thought it was a good prep.

So we've decided to let him show what he's good at. We'd like to get him a Grade I win, but mostly we want to get ready for the Breeders' Cup Classic."

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Hail2Reason

I agree, but the trainer and owner brought it upon themselves with their lies about why they were running in the race. Even the clowns at ESPN were laughing at how they were saying they went in the race because it was a good prep for their eventual plan of the Breeders Cup Classic. Don't insult my intelligence. He was in the race because they needed a grade 1 win for a bonus and they didn't want any part of Street Sense at a distance where their horse has struggled to win. It wasn't because they thought it was a good prep.

It really doesn't matter. They'll say what they are going to say -- truth, lies, whatever, and your intelligence may or may not be insulted. That's part of this game. The connections of horses will never manage their horses based upon, up to, etc., other people's expectations, desires, wants, or whatever you want to call. Maybe it's no different than criticizing Steinbrenner for making an owner's move, or Torre for making a manager's move.

Be that as it may -- it doesn't matter because it had nothing to do with the horse and his performance. Why Hard Spun sucks -- what kind of thread it that. Anyone who looks to criticize this horse off that performance is just grasping at straws. He could have done this, or he could have went there, or whatever. All that talk could make winners out of all the losers at the track. Could have, should have, would have.

Eric

[Riot]

He was in the race because they needed a grade 1 win for a bonus and they didn't want any part of Street Sense at a distance where their horse has struggled to win.

They made an intelligent and profitable financial decision, they made a sound management decision for the horse based upon his abilities, and the trainer prepared the horse so that he blew his competition out of the water in a great race.

What jerks!

[Bobby Fischer]

on racing record - You have to judge Curlin to get a standard for where Hard Spun belongs. If you consider Curlin the 1st or 2nd best racing 3yo, that bodes well for Hard Spun to be closely ranked. Both times Hard Spun didn't have a garbage ride he beat Curlin. To be fair, you have to consider Curlin's garbage ride in the Derby where Albarado asked nothing out of the gate, and was left with a lot of work, when he could have loomed in the pocket that Sedgefield enjoyed. You also have to be realistic that even a decent ride for Hard Spun in the Preakness would have likely left him short of the top two that day.
Do you rank the Pletcher move-up AGS 3rd best or HS? Up to you. Maybe it comes down to specific distances with these two. Saturday is clearly more explosive in the last two races and possibly better than 3rd best for pure racing ability right now. We wait to see if AGS will revert back to his natural ability under a stressful 10 panels in the BC Classic.

on physicallity - Hard Spun is the best 3yo dirt animal. He made Curlin look like a donkey head-to-head in the Haskell paddock, and Curlin is a big boy himself! HS is a superior animal. This is no runt. Street Sense and Curlin are beautiful horses, but Hard Spun is a cut above.

on pedigree - His pedigree is pretty good. A little hard to compare pedigrees, but I don't know that I would rank Hard Spun necessarily top-5 of the 3yos. He could easily turn out to be. Will be interesting to see if they breed him with any classy turf producers as well.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He stumbled coming out of the gate...and was drawn outside of the undefeated one-dimensional Cable Boy....who needed the lead to have any shot.

So, after the stumble, had Pino not put Hard Spun to stout restraint, he would have found himself in a bitter head-to-head speed duel.

Hard Spun got loose in the Kentucky Derby -- in a race over-flowing with speed horses -- he is fast enough to get loose in virtually all Grade 1 route races.

However, his connections have been afraid to use his only real weapon (his natural speed) since the Derby. They decided they had to use it in the King's Bishop...because Hard Spun has never had dirt kicked in his face before, and horses often struggle from the off-the-pace when expieriencing that for the first time.

At this time of the year, all these silly one-dimensional sprinter/milers like Flying First Class and Cable Boy have proven they aren't Grade 1 routers -- and the pace of these big races often start to get much slower.

thats a fair point, I do see his speed as a bigger assest as the pretenders fall by the wayside. He could have easily dominated the pace of the Travers.
I not sure he would have won it, but it would have really changed the complexion.