Arlignton Poly

[Danzig]

i think we should have a debate between the bid and sumitas on the issue of polytrack.
ought to be entertaining.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think we should have a debate between the bid and sumitas on the issue of polytrack.
ought to be entertaining.

There is no debate needed, The Bid has tunnel vision and cannot, for some reason, accept change.

Why would the near exact same surface be so good over here but yet so bad over there? I will tell you why. Because our tracks that have Poly can maintain and mamnge it properly, making it one of the best artificial surfaces a horse can race on.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

There is no debate needed, The Bid has tunnel vision and cannot, for some reason, accept change.

Why would the near exact same surface be so good over here but yet so bad over there? I will tell you why. Because our tracks that have Poly can maintain and mamnge it properly, making it one of the best artificial surfaces a horse can race on.

I don't think Bid hates poly, I think he hates what excuses tracks used for getting the surface, when they could have done some things differently to prevent some of these injuries. Just my observation

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by Scav

I don't think Bid hates poly, I think he hates what excuses tracks used for getting the surface, when they could have done some things differently to prevent some of these injuries. Just my observation

All they need to do is 'prepare' the surface and i'm confident that most of these break downs will stop. It could be ofcourse that the horses that are breaking down are physically weak individuals anyway, we all know the amount of drugs they run on (something which i don't agree with).

I'm just fed up of hearing people slam the Poly for no reason, when it should be the track that is getting slammed for not preparing the surface correctly.

There is another course with Polytrack in Europe now. In Ireland to be specific. They had a trial race day there the other day before their first 'proper' race day next week. All of the trainers and jockeys reported it to be a beautiful and safe surface.

All three of our polytrack surfaces have had next to no problems, so i cannot see why it is having all of the problems over there, unless it isn't being prepared correctly. That surely is the only reason other than the theory of much weaker horses racing in America.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

All they need to do is 'prepare' the surface and i'm confident that most of these break downs will stop. It could be ofcourse that the horses that are breaking down are physically weak individuals anyway, we all know the amount of drugs they run on (something which i don't agree with).

I'm just fed up of hearing people slam the Poly for no reason, when it should be the track that is getting slammed for not preparing the surface correctly.

There is another course with Polytrack in Europe now. In Ireland to be specific. They had a trial race day there the other day before their first 'proper' race day next week. All of the trainers and jockeys reported it to be a beautiful and safe surface.

All three of our polytrack surfaces have had next to no problems, so i cannot see why it is having all of the problems over there, unless it isn't being prepared correctly. That surely is the only reason other than the theory of much weaker horses racing in America.

thus far del mar has no breakdowns on their track, only on the turf. of course not everyone is happy with how the surface is playing.
of course bid is located near turfway and arlington, so i doubt he cares much about del mar. i know turfway had many more problems last year than their first with the artificial, and arlington has some work to do. but i think arlington is ahead of where they were.

i'm just not totally sold that a good poly is better than a good dirt surface. unless of course you've got a turf track and hope to keep full fields when they come off due to weather.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by Danzig

thus far del mar has no breakdowns on their track, only on the turf. of course not everyone is happy with how the surface is playing.
of course bid is located near turfway and arlington, so i doubt he cares much about del mar. i know turfway had many more problems last year than their first with the artificial, and arlington has some work to do. but i think arlington is ahead of where they were.

i'm just not totally sold that a good poly is better than a good dirt surface. unless of course you've got a turf track and hope to keep full fields when they come off due to weather.

Turfway had the problems because of freezing track temperatures, and the main reason for that is because they thought they only had to harrow it once and everything would be okay. Surely everyone knows that if something is kept on the move, it will not freeze up and 'ball' together.

Wolverhampton had problems with the freezing track in the winter, but they just about managed to get through it by harrowing it after EVERY race to kep the surface moving. However, they also found that heavy snow fall can find out the Poly. Really heavy snow will settle on the track and cause it to freeze under the layer of snow. There was nothing they could do about that.

From all the stats i have seen, Poly is a much safer surface than dirt, but that doesn't give a true reflection because, as you say there have been some great dirt surfaces and some truly awful ones. What i will say is that the dirt was often a very fast surface, and made fast because that's how the track wanted it. If that dirt surface becomes too fast there is very little cushion in it and that is no good for half a ton of horse.

The Poly can ride fast or slow, depending how the track preapre it, but however it rides, it will always have that much needed cushion to minimise bone concussion in the horse's limbs.

[The Bid]

It was two Scav

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart...081707USA2.pdf

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart...081707USA7.pdf

[JJP]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

I'm just fed up of hearing people slam the Poly for no reason, when it should be the track that is getting slammed for not preparing the surface correctly.

Who rips it for no reason? There's plenty of reason to rip it; the first being that it produces boring, unwatchable races. I've got news for you Europeans; we Americans don't like watching your style of racing. Sure, Europe has the best grass horses nowadays, but watching a field of horses gallop/crawl for 8 furlongs only to start trying for the final 2 furlongs is a joke. I think Stephen Crist addressed the subject quite well in his Sunday editorial in the DRF.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by JJP

Who rips it for no reason? There's plenty of reason to rip it; the first being that it produces boring, unwatchable races. I've got news for you Europeans; we Americans don't like watching your style of racing. Sure, Europe has the best grass horses nowadays, but watching a field of horses gallop/crawl for 8 furlongs only to start trying for the final 2 furlongs is a joke. I think Stephen Crist addressed the subject quite well in his Sunday editorial in the DRF.

And if the tracks prepared the poly correctly, it could act just like dirt and make sure there is a true end to end gallop. They're obviously not doing that, though.

We prefer tactical racing, the jocks use their brains (well, most of them) rather than just say "well, lets have a pac duell with four other horses, get posted five ride round the bends and not have a chance of winning".

Just because you now have what once was just a european surface, it doesn't mean the races have to run like european races. As i said, if Arlington and the other tracks were to prepare it to ride like a dirt surface (but safer), which can be done...... the problem that you're having would be solved.

[JJP]

We'll see if they can get it right. Like Crist said, we have more extreme weather here and I don't think many who rushed to judgement took that into account. I won't rip Turfway Park because they have to race thru brutal conditions and from what I've seen, their racing has been more like normal dirt racing than the other synthetic tracks. And they were losing race dates. Arlington? I hated to see my local track get it but I knew it was going to happen because of all the bad publicity last year. The Chicago Tribune, a paper who basically eliminated horse racing coverage and charts ten years ago, was on a witch hunt to make AP look bad. Was it the surface? Maybe, but I think some trainers were definitely to blame for some of the breakdowns we saw last year (which seem to be escalating recently).
But California? This was just plain wrong for the CHRB to mandate synthetic surfaces on all the tracks. They don't have weather issues out there. If this was a reaction to breakdowns at Dmr last year, then fine, just put it there but don't penalize the other tracks and fans. And Keeneland? That track has become a laughingstock. The Poly propagandists love to point at the Sinister Minister race as being fraudulent but I would argue that the most fraudulent Grade 1 on dirt I've ever seen was the Blue Grass this year.....and I even nailed the exacta so it wasn't sour grapes.
A little bit of synthetic is fine; a good alternative for winter tracks like Turfway....I could see Aqueduct replacing the inner dirt with it and it probably would make sense. But to see tracks like Keeneland and Santa Anita go to it is just wrong. I hope to God Saratoga and CD never go to it because that will be the end of American style racing as we know it.

[Danzig]

the problems comes in when trainers think that the track is a magic pill that a horse in bad shape can run over with no ill affects.
and of course there are the tracks who installed it while wearing rose-colored glasses and now have to go back and read the manual! think about it, how many of us buy something, put it together, have parts left over (do they send extras? i'm sure they must BE extra pieces) realize there's a problem, and go back and read the instructions.
and then the lightbulb comes on.

no one said that the track would eliminate all breakdowns (after all how can it, when not all breakdowns are related to surface, but to issues with the horse itself?) but would be a safer alternative. i'm not so sure that the best poly is safer than the best dirt surface, but i'd imagine it's better than many of the dirt tracks that it's replacing.

most people are resistant to change-it's our nature. BUT, if the change is made, we have to hope the track does everything it can to get it right-but by the same token, a trainer needs to do HIS job right as well.