Any Given Saturday

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by Danzig

and it's funny to see that as much as they've tried, they are retreating on the track. amazing how little success they've had lately...then again, maybe not so amazing. you have to wonder who is their bloodstock manager--are they seeking the best horses or the best pedigrees?

people talk about breeding to race vs breeding to sell (ostensibly for someone else to race). seems there's a third one. breeding to sell(to breed).

Well, when the sheikh has John Ferguson and Simon Crisford advising him what to buy, they don't have much chance of success

Ferguson seems to be pedigree lover. I quite think that he will see a beautiful pedigree and will pay upwards of $5million for it and then he discovers it has three good legs.

[Danzig]

i guess it depends on their ultimate goal...but it just seems they are throwing money in all directions, rather than having a real sense of the approach they want to take.

i just think if they wanted to build a real successful stable, they can and will--and have. but the focus is seemingly on being better than coolmore..the sheik has a huge undertaking ahead of him.

meanwhile, coolmore follows their plan, and their sucesses continue.

[Danzig]

also, wonder why the sheik is so fixated on coolmore--lane's end is doing better than him as well....

amazing the top sires and their farms on this years list. top two are lane's end stallions, then a winstar, and then two ashfords(coolmore).

lane's end has 5 in the top 20.
ashford has 4.
darley? 1

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by Danzig

also, wonder why the sheik is so fixated on coolmore--lane's end is doing better than him as well....

amazing the top sires and their farms on this years list. top two are lane's end stallions, then a winstar, and then two ashfords(coolmore).

lane's end has 5 in the top 20.
ashford has 4.
darley? 1

Another thing is the fact that they continue to buy horses for their stable because apparently the ones they already have aren't good enough. It's great marketing for their breeding operation isn't it

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i guess it depends on their ultimate goal...but it just seems they are throwing money in all directions, rather than having a real sense of the approach they want to take.

i just think if they wanted to build a real successful stable, they can and will--and have. but the focus is seemingly on being better than coolmore..the sheik has a huge undertaking ahead of him.

meanwhile, coolmore follows their plan, and their sucesses continue.

Very true. In the beginning, when spending was limited and the number of horses they had in their stable was also limited they were successful. Then for no reason at all they decided to increase their stable size by around 200% and continued to buy other people's horses that they regarded as competition. It failed to work then, so why should it work now? They cannot see this, it seems.

There is no doubt in my mind that they are jealous of Coolmore. It must really frustrate them when they see Coolmore doing very little (so it seems) but continuing with huge success year after year.

As you have said, it doesn't seem like they have a plan other than to buy and hope for the best. It's the same with racehorses and stallion prospects.

Their decision not to buy any yearlings at public auctions by Coolmore stallions was just stupid. Coolmore stallions are at the top of the tree each year, a business cannot stop buying the best if they want to succeed. Everyone sees that decision as nothing more than stupid, but they don't see that.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i guess it depends on their ultimate goal...but it just seems they are throwing money in all directions, rather than having a real sense of the approach they want to take.

i just think if they wanted to build a real successful stable, they can and will--and have. but the focus is seemingly on being better than coolmore..the sheik has a huge undertaking ahead of him.

meanwhile, coolmore follows their plan, and their sucesses continue.

I beg to differ. Coolmore's stallion roster in the US is full of middle of the road types, some old ones, some fading ones, and a couple of promising ones. American breeders with the power mares are thinking twice about Coolmore stallions because they know the biggest player is out of the market for their foals. Darley is also driving up the premium stallion market to force Coolmore to either overpay for a prospect or not be a player for them. They did it to him and now he is doing it to them.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I beg to differ. Coolmore's stallion roster in the US is full of middle of the road types, some old ones, some fading ones, and a couple of promising ones. American breeders with the power mares are thinking twice about Coolmore stallions because they know the biggest player is out of the market for their foals. Darley is also driving up the premium stallion market to force Coolmore to either overpay for a prospect or not be a player for them. They did it to him and now he is doing it to them.

the green monkey effect..?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

the green monkey effect..?

Started long before him...

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I beg to differ. Coolmore's stallion roster in the US is full of middle of the road types, some old ones, some fading ones, and a couple of promising ones. American breeders with the power mares are thinking twice about Coolmore stallions because they know the biggest player is out of the market for their foals. Darley is also driving up the premium stallion market to force Coolmore to either overpay for a prospect or not be a player for them. They did it to him and now he is doing it to them.

but with coolmore being world wide, and having so much success still overseas, does the loss of potential customers over here level their playing field? just seems you see a lot of articles lately talking about godolphin staggering along, while coolmore continues to win the big ones.

[Indian Charlie]

giants causeway's yearling numbers will go way back up after the sept sale, which is the #1 sale in the world.

so far, the only yearling sales to have taken place have been pretty weak, save maybe that last FT one which was decent.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

giants causeway's yearling numbers will go way back up after the sept sale, which is the #1 sale in the world.

so far, the only yearling sales to have taken place have been pretty weak, save maybe that last FT one which was decent.

Not necessarily. He has already had 62 go through the ring this year including the biggest sale (Ingles) in the Southern hemisphere and 2 major yearling sales here (July and Saratoga) He had 89 sell last year and will probably have a similar number this year.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by Danzig

but with coolmore being world wide, and having so much success still overseas, does the loss of potential customers over here level their playing field? just seems you see a lot of articles lately talking about godolphin staggering along, while coolmore continues to win the big ones.

The way i see it is that Coolmore see the American market as the least of their worries. I wouldn't like to say why, but they have always been more interested in the european market.

Darley and Godolphin are staggering along, you only have to see the stallion stats to notice that. So many Coolmore stallions from around the world in the top half of the list, but only a couple of Darley stallions.

Many mare owners will look at this list first, and the psychological impact it has to see Coolmore have so many stallions in the top bracket is usually enough to sway their decision over many other stud organisations. Why do you constantly see Darley advertising almost everyday of the week all through the year? Because their outside 'sales' are low. Coolmore don't really need to market that much, the stats give them as much free marketing as they need.

Someone was saying it isn't a good ploy for Coolmore to buy yearlings by their stallions?????? Porbably the most absurd argument i have seen. 1. By buying a lot of their stallion's yearlings it shows they trust the stallions they have, they are backing up their own business (which any business in any sector would do). 2. By paying the amount they can for them, the average price for the sire's yearlings goes up each year..... something else that looks very good on them. People don't look who buys these yearlings, they just look at the prices and average prices in recent years. Nothing wrong with it, they are playing the game, as i said, it has seemingly worked thus far and it will continue to work.

Tony Morris, who is the best bloodstock writer in the world described Darley/Godolphin's decision to stop buying offspring by Coolmore's sires as nothing short of "stupid". Sure it might 'hurt' Coolmore a bit, but with the amount of money this industry is worth, it is a tiny percentage. Their stallions do the talking, not their buyers.

Sure, the American stallions aren't the best at the moment, Giant's Causeway has dipped, but as IC just said, once the big sales come around again, there is every chance the prices of his yearlings will rise sharply again. You seem to forget that the stallions in Ireland contain the best stallions in the world and continues to thrive in europe and around the world.

Coolmore can't be doing a lot wrong with how they add an extra chunk onto their lead over Godolphin each year, and it doesn't look like it will stop anytime soon.

Godolphin seem to panic buy, without much success. If they want to close the gap of Coolmore they should concentrate on their own racing and breeding operation..... not other peoples.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

The way i see it is that Coolmore see the American market as the least of their worries. I wouldn't like to say why, but they have always been more interested in the european market.

There is very little competition in Europe.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

Darley and Godolphin are staggering along, you only have to see the stallion stats to notice that. So many Coolmore stallions from around the world in the top half of the list, but only a couple of Darley stallions.

Of course however in the future when Darleys new crop of stallions start producing runners the lists may have an entire new look.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

Coolmore don't really need to market that much, the stats give them as much free marketing as they need.

They market in the US as much as any of the other major farms.

And don't forget that alot of Godolphin and Darley's advertising is used as a tool for promoting their airline.

[Danzig]

30 mill for a horse who hasn't cracked 1 of those on the track....crazy