Zayat is Leaving; Baffert hates it

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Riot

Compared to dirt, it most certainly seems to hold up alot better with less problems - Turfway has proved that in the cold, the track was open on freezing days they couldn't possibly have run on the dirt. The Keeneland Poly training track is open virtually every day all summer and winter - a dirt track couldn't be. It's holding up to the 90-degree, high humidity weather in KY today just fine.

We'll see how it holds up to heat in California. So far Hollywood has with Cushion, we'll have to see how Poly does. I read the manufacturer made the Poly in CA a little different than the Poly in KY.

I've never seen the manufacturers claim any of the artificials to be "no" maintenance. The claims I've seen is less maintenance than dirt. That's certainly true.

They had major problems at Turfway on days that they could have raced over the surface at Aqueduct. The poly was balling up and sticking in the horses' hooves plus the kickback got dangerous. Hollywood had problems with the wax melting in the heat although that was cushion track rather than Poly.

[SentToStud]

All I know is that if ever there was a time for PolyTrack to possibly have a success story, it would be Del Mar. They had plenty of time to put it in and weather is not a factor. I would have expected that with the experience they have had in Kentucky and Toronto they would have been able to make the stuff work at Del Mar however they wanted to. If people say it's training ok in the morning but is too loose in the afternoon, then why the hell won't they put some water on it? If you leave most anything in 80 deg full sun all day, it will deteriorate. The stuff is made, after all, of wax. Who the hell would think it would not go bad in the heat?

[The Bid]

Keeneland and Sumitas

[ALostTexan]

So I am at an OTB in Tucson, and was talking to one of the old school trainers here.

We got to talking about Baffert's days around Southern Arizona, and he was telling me about Bob when he was 16-17 and was not only training but about his aspirations to be a jockey.

Great conversation to say the least.

[Riot]

They had major problems at Turfway on days that they could have raced over the surface at Aqueduct.

It only matters to me how the poly at Turfway compares to the dirt that was at Turfway (not Aqueduct). They got alot more racing days. And bigger fields, more mutual handle.

The poly was balling up and sticking in the horses' hooves plus the kickback got dangerous. Hollywood had problems with the wax melting in the heat although that was cushion track rather than Poly.

Those problems were fixed, weren't they?

[The Bid]

They missed days, had horses break down steady in the morning, cancelled training, lied about the track on numours occasions. Whats so good about TWP in the winter? The only shame is they can always fall back on the roads being too bad for the people coming from L'ville to travel. Truth is the track was a total joke, and so is Woodbine in the cold. Del Mar and the rest of the poly will fail in the heat, just give it time. Everyone rushed to put this garbage in once Keeneland got behind it. Before Keeneland was involved the stuff was taboo, suddenly its great when they are peddling it.

No they werent fixed, the horses come over 3 inches taller than they are because it balls up, it kicks back 45 feet and it knocked a horses eye out during a live race.

[Riot]

They missed days, had horses break down steady in the morning, cancelled training, lied about the track on numours occasions. Whats so good about TWP in the winter? The only shame is they can always fall back on the roads being too bad for the people coming from L'ville to travel.

The days Turfway missed, the roads were indeed closed. They didn't lie about that. I know, I live here. I went up to take photos of Sumwon the second day the interstate was open (side roads still ice covered), and the stable area was still an inch of sheet ice, they threw straw down on the main horse paths so they could get to the open track for training.

The steady breakdowns in the morning - I hadn't read or heard anything about that, you can share if you have specifics.

Del Mar and the rest of the poly will fail in the heat, just give it time.

Time will tell. Australia hasn't yet had a problem, but those are not exactly the same artificial surfaces.

[The Bid]

Riot, Ive noted a lot of breakdowns on here if you dig through the old threads. I also drove up from Louisville pleanty of days with no issue and the track was closed... Didnt trian, didnt run, etc. Road excuse was no good. For the record the main horsepath at TWP is also Poly, and it also freezes. I made it from L'ville in about 45 minutes, thats how bad the weather was.

Its just not an all weather surface, it freezes

[Riot]

I made it from L'ville in about 45 minutes, thats how bad the weather was.

It takes me over an hour in good weather to make that trip! I guess that makes you graded stakes, and me claiming company, driving-wise

Its just not an all weather surface, it freezes

If I recall it right, the water retained in the track froze, clogging the draining process, and the retained water in the track made the ice clods people are talking about and you referenced. I don't know what they could do about that. I do know they still had more open days than when it was dirt. Why they didn't consult other cold-weather track supers, like Sniper suggested, before Keeneland purchased an interest in the synthetic surface company (predestining Turfway to conversion first), I don't know.

[The Bid]

I go 90 the entire drive and can make it in 45-50.

The track doesnt weather well. They will have more issues this winter with the same group of excuses. The kickback is ridiculous, it freezes, it balls up, its uneven. I think they lost as many days this year as they have in the past due to "Roads"

One day sticks out in my mind, cold day, TWP cancelled, Beulah ran, and New York ran. They had their tracks under control, while TWP coudlnt control the frozen ice kickback.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Riot

It only matters to me how the poly at Turfway compares to the dirt that was at Turfway (not Aqueduct). They got alot more racing days. And bigger fields, more mutual handle.



Those problems were fixed, weren't they?

They could have put in a surface similar to Aqueduct and run in the same cold weather though.

Fixed when the winter ended! We'll see how it goes again this winter.

Just look at the Saratoga track, has there been a single breakdown on the dirt this whole meet? For the price spent on polytrack why couldn't tracks have developed a dirt track similar to Saratoga's that is both safe and true dirt?