Zayat is Leaving; Baffert hates it

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by ELA

More on this story . . .

http://www.drf.com/news/article/87205.html

I see both sides of the fence on this. However, as much as I hate to say it, I think a good amount of the criticism is "crying" -- and that's not meant as criticism.

The bettor is used to, wants, is looking for, etc. -- a bias, pattern, trend, whatever you want to call it. Reliability is something that could be ideal, but it plays both ways. Regardless, does this make handicapping more difficult? It sure does. Of course. But we have to act, react, and adapt to that. It's not the same arguement that Baffert is making -- two different tracks -- nobody bets on "races in the morning" and if you can't see what the works are, mean, and are reflective of, etc., well that's another issue.

The trainer -- is looking for consistency. Sure, in an ideal world, that would be ideal. It's safe, reliable, etc. However, Baffert is taking this arguement to an extreme; or perhaps Zayat is. This is not taking the speed out of the track, or the game. It's a byproduct, not a goal. Cause and effect? Should there be tweaking? OK, but I think in the larger picture, that decision needs to be left to the experts -- or the closest ones to being an expert, and I don't think Baffert or Zayat fall into that camp.

The majority of the trainers and jocks I've spoke with are positive about the surface. Sure, there's a learning curve, a life-cycle, and change is inevitable -- liked, disliked, wanted, or not.

I think Baffert is distorting the real issue here. Talking about "taking the speed out" is somewhat narrow-minded. How does it affect him more than others? Because of the yearlings, 2yo's, etc. he bought? What about other trainers? It's a futile arguement.

The claims of the manufacturers about maintenence, ongoing costs, and everything else is also not the issue here. You can't unring a bell. That's more scapegoat type of excuses to distort or deflect the arguement as well. I don't think that saying "weather was neglected" or not taken into consideration, or anything of the like for that matter, justifies anything.

Eric

Adjusting to Polytrack
By STEVE ANDERSEN
DEL MAR, Calif. - The first two weeks of racing on Del Mar's new Polytrack synthetic surface have left trainer Art Sherman baffled at times on the best way to prepare his horses.

He says the course he trains over in the morning is firmer than it is during the afternoon, when abundant sunshine makes the course more tiring. It has not been an easy transition for a trainer long-accustomed to racing on a speed-oriented conventional dirt track, and it has forced him to change his training style.

"I let them gallop and open up in the last part," he said, referring to a quicker finish during morning exercise. "I'm putting more miles in them. I'm training hard. I'm trying to adapt in how I train. It's been a long process.

"A couple of horses that ran well at Hollywood Park, I thought they'd run well and they staggered in."

Put simply, Sherman wishes the course played quicker, but realizes that is unlikely to occur.

"I've had a couple of different issues," Sherman said. "I think we have two different tracks from the morning to the afternoon. I wish they could tighten it down. If they could tighten it down, that would be the way to go."

Sherman said one adjustment he has made is expecting slower times for workouts and races. He had two horses - All Thee B and Movie Fan - work six furlongs in 1:16.80 on Wednesday morning. On a conventional dirt track, or even a Cushion Track synthetic surface such as Hollywood Park's, that would be slow time, but the time did not concern Sherman.

"That was a decent work," he said. "They would have gone in 1:14 on a different surface. You have to adjust."

Friday, Sherman starts Mike's Trippin in the eighth race, a maiden claimer over 5 1/2 furlongs. Mike's Trippin, winless in six starts, has enough speed to be an early factor. How the 3-year-old will handle his first start on Polytrack is a mystery to Sherman.

Sherman is convinced that Mike's Trippin needs every advantage to win Friday. He fears the track is not conducive to front-runners, which will make it more difficult for Mike's Trippin to win despite the race's short distance.

The modest race is Mike's Trippin's first start as a gelding, according to Sherman, who took the precaution of shipping the 3-year-old from Hollywood Park to Del Mar last week to give him a few extra days of training on Polytrack.

"He's a speed horse," Sherman said. "Maybe by the last race, the track might tighten up."
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Riot, u asked what others? Shirreffs and Sherman to name a couple who have come forward in the past day. As I said, if u know anyone that works around there or anyone that knows anyone, ask. U will come to realize there are others.

[10 pnt move up]

In the end the market will tell us if its acceptable to both horsemen and the player, if no one runs and even worse if no one plays then you will see changes.

[letswastemoney]

just train the horses differently

[The Bid]

If all you need to do is train them to be slow maybe Elliot Walden will get back into training

[sumitas]

It's pointless to resist the change to ploy. I'm looking forward to the NY tracks converting as well as all the others.

[The Bid]

Slow horseracing is a lot of fun. I enjoy watching good pacers cover the mile in the same time as thoroughbreds.

I have been to Del Mar and prefer the atmosphere to Saratoga too, but that is as a fan. If I was a horse owner I would have all my horses at Saratoga. He shouldn't decide where to keep his horses based on which "atmosphere" he prefers. I wouldn't put a horse on a new surface until atleast one year after it has been installed and the tweaks worked out.

[Riot]

"I let them gallop and open up in the last part," he said, referring to a quicker finish during morning exercise. "I'm putting more miles in them. I'm training hard. I'm trying to adapt in how I train. It's been a long process.

A quote in the TB Times from Frank Kirby, ITHA president, "At first, it seemed some of my horses were getting a little tired, so I started training them a little harder. Now, I don't know if you have to train them a little harder. I'm training pretty much the way I always did. The horses who like it, like it; the ones who don't like it, that's another story."

From an exercise-physiology standpoint, btw, it's known that if too many miles are added to a horse in training, it can reduce it's speed.

I think this "new surface" challenge will showcase trainers who are more adept at identifying an individual animals assets and weaknesses, and training an individual animal to top potential. Some animals get by on innate ability, some are brought to new heights beyond expectation due to astute training.

As ArlJim said, someone is winning these races

Sherman is convinced that Mike's Trippin needs every advantage to win Friday. He fears the track is not conducive to front-runners, which will make it more difficult for Mike's Trippin to win despite the race's short distance.

"Needing every advantage" for a win implies to me a horse that isn't a good bet for that win in that race. I think that's less of a track problem (although a muddy track has waylaid many a race-day expectation), than a "horse for the course" or race selection problem.

A horse that could fly for 7 furlongs over a hard, fast track may only be able to reproduce a similar performance over 6 or 6 1/2 without the assistance of the faster track.

Dirt and turf tracks vary widely between different race tracks, all have their own reputations - and as handicappers, we all know that. Some tracks historically have favored front-runners, and allowed them to carry their speed farther than at other tracks, some tracks favor stalkers or even closers.

I think we all know what style California historically is known for That's why I'm very interested in seeing what CA horses get on the Derby prep race trail next year - how will they do?

So it doesn't surprise me that some trainers will have some horses that don't do as well on this surface as on another, or on cushion vs. poly, on Keeneland poly vs Arlington, etc. They may have to learn how to spot their horses a bit differently to give the horse the optimal chance to perform to it's best level.

Riot, u asked what others? Shirreffs and Sherman to name a couple who have come forward in the past day. As I said, if u know anyone that works around there or anyone that knows anyone, ask. U will come to realize there are others

That's why I'm asking who they are. I would indeed like to hear from other trainers that feel this way, details regarding how their horses are doing in training vs. race, etc. But I can't presume what they number.