Zayat is Leaving; Baffert hates it

[Riot]

What I hear from people who work, train and ride on the track is that the track feels great and it definitely has a positive long range effect on the horses health.

That being said no one likes racing on it.

Who has said this? (aside from Baffert)

If the SOSD article is true, then Joe Harper needs to resign.

[Riot]

We need to hear from people on the backstretch, riding horses over it - Honu?

[Hawk]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

If the SOSD article is true, then Joe Harper needs to resign.

Over what?

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Hawk

Over what?

For being dumb enough to swear loudly at an owner in public. He's CEO of a decent size company. The fact that it's a racetrack doesn't make his bad judgement and actions tolerable.

[whodey17]

I have long been a fan of Polytrack, but Cushion tracks sure does seem to be better than Poly. Keep in mind, I have never seen Cushion or walked on it or know anyone who has raced over it. I have done all the above on Poly. I can say that the two horses that I have raced on Poly are in good physical shape. The massive kickback at Turfway appears not to have any ill effects on the horses that I have. I think that Baffert and Zayat have a legitimate gripe. They buy and train speed horses and Poly isnt for the speed type. To me, it doesnt matter what time the horse runs; it only matter than each horses comes back safely. A 3-1 shot pays $8 bucks if he/she runs 6 furlongs in 1:08 or 1:12 and wins. So why does time matter????

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Hawk

Over what?

Because this stuff was untested under these conditions. But that's not even the problem. The problem comes in not being able to see that there are issues that need to be dealt with and then dealing with them. If u see that adjustements need to be made, then u make them immediately. For him to sit there and say the they will do nothing to the track and address everything AFTER the meet is irresponsible, IMO.

[theiman]

The yearlings that Baffert bought for Zayat in the fall of 2006, now 2 yr olds, should have been thought out for style of racing. Team Baffert should have known they werent running on the 405 Freeways formerly known as SA and HP. The decision from the CHRB to change tracks was announced in Feb 2006 not yesterday.

Didnt hear any complaints from Bafferts camp when Sinister Minister ran at Keeneland getting the 500 Beyer speed rating, incidently he hasnt done much since.

Baffert couldnt even adapt to Cushion track at HP, insisting on training at SA and seeing his horses win at 8% at HP Spring vs norm of 20% for their stable.

Now 2 weeks into the meet,"We want Change or we are taking our horses", well sorry to see you go. Bring some extra deodarant as the stink you bring to Saratoga could be coming from your horses on the NY tracks or the higher humidity, we wont know which as of today.

[KY_Sasquash]

Originally Posted by theiman

The yearlings that Baffert bought for Zayat in the fall of 2006, now 2 yr olds, should have been thought out for style of racing. Team Baffert should have known they werent running on the 405 Freeways formerly known as SA and HP. The decision from the CHRB to change tracks was announced in Feb 2006 not yesterday.

Didnt hear any complaints from Bafferts camp when Sinister Minister ran at Keeneland getting the 500 Beyer speed rating, incidently he hasnt done much since.

Baffert couldnt even adapt to Cushion track at HP, insisting on training at SA and seeing his horses win at 8% at HP Spring vs norm of 20% for their stable.

Now 2 weeks into the meet,"We want Change or we are taking our horses", well sorry to see you go. Bring some extra deodarant as the stink you bring to Saratoga could be coming from your horses on the NY tracks or the higher humidity, we wont know which as of today.

Nobody knew how the synthetic surfaces would playout i.e. kind to plodders and a disadvantage to speed during the yearling sales of 2006. I dont recall Baffert complaining about the Cushion track, just the polytrack, which according to its makers "requires no maintenance" and is a consistent surface. Its not consistent if its tight in the morning and loose in the afternoons. That's the point here, no Baffert complaining.

Part of the reason they're pissed and he didnt do well at Hollywood is b/c he points his horses specifically for the Del Mar meet. If he wanted to win at Hollywood he couldve-More Happy and Maimondes wouldnt have had problems winner over the Cushion track.

[boswd]

When is he expected to come?

[Riot]

I dont recall Baffert complaining about the Cushion track, just the polytrack, which according to its makers "requires no maintenance"

To be fair, the manufacturers state it requires less or minimal maintenance compared to dirt or turf, I've never seen the mfg. call it, "no" maintenance. For example, they pick manure off it after every race, so it doesn't get mixed in.

I wonder why Arlington poly doesn't have these complaints? It can go from 60 degrees and dry in the morning, to 80 and hot/humid afternoon in Chicago.

Kentucky (regarding Turfway and Keeneland) is terribly foggy and humid in the morning, and hot and dry (or moist) in the afternoon - quite extreme weather during a summer day. In the winter Turfway only lost 4 days this year, I believe (during the ice storm, when you couldn't walk out of your barn, there was an inch of ice on the ground). KEE certainly had enough 2-year-olds go sub-11 seconds on the poly at the training sales.

It's slightly different, it's here, it's not going anywhere.

In the current Thoroughbred Times, regarding current Polytrack Arlington meet through July 15th:

Fatal breakdowns down from 2006: 17 2007: 5
Average daily on track handle: up 23.5%
All source wagering: up 26.2%
Average daily attendance: up from 2006: 7,169 to 2007: 8,619
Average number starters per race: up from 2006: 7.2 to 2007: 8.5

Less fatal breakdowns, handle up, all wagering up, attendance up, field size up ... it's a bad thing for racing?

[Riot]

Nobody knew how the synthetic surfaces would playout i.e. kind to plodders and a disadvantage to speed during the yearling sales of 2006

.

Does anybody have figures on Kee, Turf, Arlington, or even first days of Del Mar, regarding what percentage of horses have won from front, stalking, closing? I've seen some published, can't recall where.

[rgustafson]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Because this stuff was untested under these conditions. But that's not even the problem. The problem comes in not being able to see that there are issues that need to be dealt with and then dealing with them. If u see that adjustements need to be made, then u make them immediately. For him to sit there and say the they will do nothing to the track and address everything AFTER the meet is irresponsible, IMO.

King, don't think you are being realistic about this. They have raced over the surface for just two weeks(12 days) and now because a couple of guys complain about it your supposed to start dicking around with the track and see how it responds? This, to me, seems just as irresponsible.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by rgustafson

King, don't think you are being realistic about this. They have raced over the surface for just two weeks(12 days) and now because a couple of guys complain about it your supposed to start dicking around with the track and see how it responds? This, to me, seems just as irresponsible.

It's not just a couple of guys complaining. Believe that. KY Sasquatch just hit it on the head. Baffert is not complaining because he's not winning. He didn't complain at Hollywood either and most important, both he and Zayat say that they LIKE the track at Del Mar. They both say that in the mornings, the track is fine but that it's how it changes in the afternoons that is the concern. They are complaining more about the consistency of the track, not how fast or slow it is.

[ArlJim78]

whatever the track variation is morning to afternoon, tight or loose, someone is winning those races other than Baffert, and they are dealing with the same circumstances as Baffert and are doing so with less "brilliant" horses than he has. how do they do it?

[Hawk]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

It's not just a couple of guys complaining. Believe that. KY Sasquatch just hit it on the head. Baffert is not complaining because he's not winning. He didn't complain at Hollywood either and most important, both he and Zayat say that they LIKE the track at Del Mar. They both say that in the mornings, the track is fine but that it's how it changes in the afternoons that is the concern. They are complaining more about the consistency of the track, not how fast or slow it is.

Many tracks run differently in the AM than in the afternoon. Even with the dirt here @ DMR it ran differently. So what? Is it time to freak out and change the course for Zayat? Doubtful.

[Riot]

It's not just a couple of guys complaining. Believe that.

Who are they? TenPtMoveup said he talked to a person who worked horses for John Sherrifs.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Riot

Who has said this? (aside from Baffert)

One person I talked to works horses for John Sherriffs and also rides them in the afternoon so he has felt it at both times of the day.

Sherriffs in a DRF article yesterday said "I dont want to comment on the track but we are running ap xcellent on the grass as speed is not doing well on the main track"....

mind you this would have been one of the favorites in a million dollar race in a few weeks.