Lawyer Ron's Time

[ELA]

I'm not quite sure what the alleged controversy is now about. Of course, as far as the time goes, that could have been a very serious issue; however, the time could have been and was verified and relatively very quickly. There might have been a time delay in getting the verification out, but the very next day on the backstretch it was a non-issue.

Regarding the Beyer #, I read the article(s) as everyone else has as well. The "human" or personal element of the Beyer # has always been present. Being that the track record time cannot be disputed -- as a "raw", recorded time -- that only leaves other "variables" at play. If the comprehensive data comes back with a 123, then it is what it is. However, we aren't talking about 123 here. We are talking about 116.

As a matter of fact, Mark Hopkins came right out and said that the horse never came close to 123. Of course he gave all the "data" to support that.

However, my question is -- why? Because Lawyer Ron never ran better than 109? I understand the 2005 Whitney and the afterthoughts of perhaps the #'s being mistaken or inaccurate, however, is there where a "wrong" is made "right" so to speak?

There is a "human" element to the Beyer #, and we all know it's not science or exclusively formulaic.

Eric

[JJP]

Yes there definitely is. If they assigned Lawyer Ron a 123, it would not only been a huge new top for him, but for a number of horses in the field. The chances of numerous horses in a race jumping up and either running new tops or dramatically improved figures (with the exception of 2YO races and early season 3YOs) isn't very likely. Could Wanderin Boy run a 115, not only in defeat, but away from the old rail biased Keeneland? I seriously doubt it. Could Diamond Stripes run a 113? Maybe with a perfect trip in a winning effort; doubtful here in defeat. Could Fairbanks run a 110 without the aid of an easy lead? Doubtful. Could Dry Martini run a 109, only 2 pts better than his win in Iowa? Maybe but the 107 he ran was in a winning effort, on Bute and the figure maker at PrM is often on the too generous side. Not impossible, but not likely he ran a 109. Kudos to Hopkins and Beyer for nailing this one.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I had the Whitney a 115 and the Go For Wand a 91.

I used the same variant for both races.

I think the Go For Wand was a much less impressive race than people think, and doubt the track changed speeds so much in that 30 minutes of time.

If anything, the track would have changed speeds before the Grade 2 sprint stake.

However, the top 7 finishers in that race had only been seperated by four lengths, and it didn't come back eye-opening fast. The last place finisher in the race ran 1:09 and change.

Like the Go For Wand...it was another unimpressive race.

If anyone is looking to try and take away from Lawer Ron's performance, I guess you'd have to start with the fact that the ultra moderate Magna Graduate was the post time favorite in the Whitney.

[Merlinsky]

I still think all the rubbarb about the time and Beyer (specifically whether he set the track record) was at least partially motivated by the idea that Lawyer Ron's gonna be slugging it out with the other mid-range stallions once he hits the shed and something like a track record at Saratoga at a mile and an eighth in a G1 is an achievement certain folks would just love to take away from him so he doesn't pull mares from their stallion. I don't think the DRF article would be written the way it was if they were trying to validate the time of a Bernardini for example. He's more people's horse than blue blood and it just burned somebody that they didn't think him capable of it and he proved himself. So the 'well that can't be right, I didn't see it coming' plus 'a record like that costs somebody money' caused a controversy to crop up where it could've been handled much more professionally. There's a way to be upbeat and say you're excited a record may have been obtained and are hoping to validate it as soon as possible versus practically declaring you expect that the timer was broken as so many did. It sure looked like a horse running a track record time to me, when I saw that race, and a 116 because the other races on the card weren't as strong when LR turned in something this flashy is stupid. Wonderful performances are supposed to stand out. Gotta take him down a peg though. Just can't help themselves. It could be the best performance he does from here on out but so what? Let him have the career highlight if he earns it. If he can't go over 112 from here on out, oh well. Some days a horse just feels good.

[letswastemoney]

I think Lawyer Ron's performance sort of "carried" the other horses to do better than they normally would.

[31lengths]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

I still think all the rubbarb about the time and Beyer (specifically whether he set the track record) was at least partially motivated by the idea that Lawyer Ron's gonna be slugging it out with the other mid-range stallions once he hits the shed and something like a track record at Saratoga at a mile and an eighth in a G1 is an achievement certain folks would just love to take away from him so he doesn't pull mares from their stallion. I don't think the DRF article would be written the way it was if they were trying to validate the time of a Bernardini for example. He's more people's horse than blue blood and it just burned somebody that they didn't think him capable of it and he proved himself. So the 'well that can't be right, I didn't see it coming' plus 'a record like that costs somebody money' caused a controversy to crop up where it could've been handled much more professionally. There's a way to be upbeat and say you're excited a record may have been obtained and are hoping to validate it as soon as possible versus practically declaring you expect that the timer was broken as so many did. It sure looked like a horse running a track record time to me, when I saw that race, and a 116 because the other races on the card weren't as strong when LR turned in something this flashy is stupid. Wonderful performances are supposed to stand out. Gotta take him down a peg though. Just can't help themselves. It could be the best performance he does from here on out but so what? Let him have the career highlight if he earns it. If he can't go over 112 from here on out, oh well. Some days a horse just feels good.

Well said and good points.

Barry Bonds

[Danzig]

i don't know about calling lawyer ron anything other than a blue-blood--he's by top ten-ner langfuhr, himself by the top stakes sire this continent has ever seen--as well as danzig being the sire of the top stakes sire in the world in danehill.

now, he was no multi-million dollar auction purchase, but he's no john henry!

the record was hard to believe as to date, lawyer ron never has seemed to be anything extraordinary.

interesting ending to the whitney, with a contentious field--but no clear front runner for the older ranks...seems lawyer ron likes to choose his moments!!!!

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't know about calling lawyer ron anything other than a blue-blood

Lawyer Ron's dam sold for just $11,000 as a yearling, and she never won a race.

I'd hardly say he's a blueblood.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Lawyer Ron's dam sold for just $11,000 as a yearling, and she never won a race.

I'd hardly say he's a blueblood.

Exactly. To me if a female family is anything but quality, so what if they pony up the dough for a respectable stud, some of those farms take the money and let you send over the plow mare, plus Langfuhr is no Danzig or Northern Dancer. He's good and all but it isn't as though they hit the stud jackpot there. Lawyer Ron's not a Bernardini, Lemon Drop Kid, or Empire Maker. He's not Lil E. Tee either but his book would've been one I'd see as involving some serious legwork to put together something spectacular. He'd have to earn his stallion reputation, not come in with some presumptive quality, hype ablaze. Even now he will but this, this will prop him up a little more. A track record in a G1 at Saratoga at a workable distance? Worth a lot. They like their records at a mile or just over right? Sires with flash at a mile get some attention for themselves since more horses end up there than 1 1/4-1/2 miles. I can't remember but I think it was the folks at Claiborne that mentioned they enjoyed that angle. Could be wrong. I've heard it from more than one place.

About him not showing anything extraodinary, there were at least a few people were falling all over themselves picking him for the Derby before. You don't do that as a nobody and wasn't he given a hero's welcome when he came back to Oaklawn before? He wasn't my Derby pick but I did enjoy him. I'd been diehard Barbaro for months and even thinking about other horses felt like blasphemy. Now I kinda enjoy seeing LR when he comes out. He's fun to watch.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Lawyer Ron's dam sold for just $11,000 as a yearling, and she never won a race.

I'd hardly say he's a blueblood.

if the racing ability of a broodmare had anything to do with it, a lot of farms would have a lot of explaining to do. lots of unraced broodmares, and ones who didn't do much track-wise.

he's no bernardini, but he's no john henry either.