Zayat is Leaving; Baffert hates it

[10 pnt move up]

This is really a tough situation.

What I hear from people who work, train and ride on the track is that the track feels great and it definitely has a positive long range effect on the horses health.

That being said no one likes racing on it. The consistency, while softer then dirt is just not there.

From a handicapping perspective it has totally eliminated speed from your handicapping assessment. It also you leaves you guessing as to who will close the best, not who is the best horse. It has not been very fun to bet these races at any condition level. Maybe the best horses are winning but picking them is close to random.

Obviously Zayat hears from baffert how bad this stuff is. I also noticed John Sherriffs has not run many and elected to run AP Xcellent on the turf because speed is getting killed on poly routes. Its not good when the top barns decide to forgo Del Mar.

I said it before they ran they made a critical mistake installing Poly over the more versatile Cushion Track.

[parsixfarms]

Generally speaking, I am a proponent of the artificial surfaces if they improve the safety of the horse. However, the Polytrack races that I have recently watched at DelMar, with the dreadfully slow paces and finishing times (I watched an open one mile NW2X go in 1:41+ on Sunday), are not particularly appealing.

That being said, aren't these complaints being made by the same trainer that recently intimated that he wouldn't know how to keep a horse together without steroids? Consider the source.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Generally speaking, I am a proponent of the artificial surfaces if they improve the safety of the horse. However, the Polytrack races that I have recently watched at DelMar, with the dreadfully slow paces and finishing times (I watched an open one mile NW2X go in 1:41+ on Sunday), are not particularly appealing.

That being said, aren't these complaints being made by the same trainer that recently intimated that he wouldn't know how to keep a horse together without steroids? Consider the source.

Don't let your feelings for Baffert steer u away from the point he was trying to make. As 10pnt just mentioned, he knows others and they don't like racing on it. Shirreffs is running on the grass and may stay away from the $1 million Pacific Classic. I know of others that have said they hate it or have complained about it's consistency the same way Baffert has.

What I also found interesting was Baffert's comments about his 2yo's. At this time of year, sprinting is the game for 2yo's. U want them to be quick out of the gate and fast around the track. Teaching them to route comes later as the distances stretch out. If speed is something that u don't want your horses to have on this track, why even run your 2yo's? It's also not just a 2yo thing. In this country, we run what, about 70% of the races at 6f and under? Speed is very important in America. If u are going to use tracks that make speed irrelevant then I think u are doing the wrong thing.

[Riot]

What I hear from people who work, train and ride on the track is that the track feels great and it definitely has a positive long range effect on the horses health.

That being said no one likes racing on it.

Who has said this? (aside from Baffert)

If the SOSD article is true, then Joe Harper needs to resign.

[Riot]

We need to hear from people on the backstretch, riding horses over it - Honu?

[Hawk]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

If the SOSD article is true, then Joe Harper needs to resign.

Over what?

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Hawk

Over what?

For being dumb enough to swear loudly at an owner in public. He's CEO of a decent size company. The fact that it's a racetrack doesn't make his bad judgement and actions tolerable.

[whodey17]

I have long been a fan of Polytrack, but Cushion tracks sure does seem to be better than Poly. Keep in mind, I have never seen Cushion or walked on it or know anyone who has raced over it. I have done all the above on Poly. I can say that the two horses that I have raced on Poly are in good physical shape. The massive kickback at Turfway appears not to have any ill effects on the horses that I have. I think that Baffert and Zayat have a legitimate gripe. They buy and train speed horses and Poly isnt for the speed type. To me, it doesnt matter what time the horse runs; it only matter than each horses comes back safely. A 3-1 shot pays $8 bucks if he/she runs 6 furlongs in 1:08 or 1:12 and wins. So why does time matter????

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Hawk

Over what?

Because this stuff was untested under these conditions. But that's not even the problem. The problem comes in not being able to see that there are issues that need to be dealt with and then dealing with them. If u see that adjustements need to be made, then u make them immediately. For him to sit there and say the they will do nothing to the track and address everything AFTER the meet is irresponsible, IMO.

[theiman]

The yearlings that Baffert bought for Zayat in the fall of 2006, now 2 yr olds, should have been thought out for style of racing. Team Baffert should have known they werent running on the 405 Freeways formerly known as SA and HP. The decision from the CHRB to change tracks was announced in Feb 2006 not yesterday.

Didnt hear any complaints from Bafferts camp when Sinister Minister ran at Keeneland getting the 500 Beyer speed rating, incidently he hasnt done much since.

Baffert couldnt even adapt to Cushion track at HP, insisting on training at SA and seeing his horses win at 8% at HP Spring vs norm of 20% for their stable.

Now 2 weeks into the meet,"We want Change or we are taking our horses", well sorry to see you go. Bring some extra deodarant as the stink you bring to Saratoga could be coming from your horses on the NY tracks or the higher humidity, we wont know which as of today.

[KY_Sasquash]

Originally Posted by theiman

The yearlings that Baffert bought for Zayat in the fall of 2006, now 2 yr olds, should have been thought out for style of racing. Team Baffert should have known they werent running on the 405 Freeways formerly known as SA and HP. The decision from the CHRB to change tracks was announced in Feb 2006 not yesterday.

Didnt hear any complaints from Bafferts camp when Sinister Minister ran at Keeneland getting the 500 Beyer speed rating, incidently he hasnt done much since.

Baffert couldnt even adapt to Cushion track at HP, insisting on training at SA and seeing his horses win at 8% at HP Spring vs norm of 20% for their stable.

Now 2 weeks into the meet,"We want Change or we are taking our horses", well sorry to see you go. Bring some extra deodarant as the stink you bring to Saratoga could be coming from your horses on the NY tracks or the higher humidity, we wont know which as of today.

Nobody knew how the synthetic surfaces would playout i.e. kind to plodders and a disadvantage to speed during the yearling sales of 2006. I dont recall Baffert complaining about the Cushion track, just the polytrack, which according to its makers "requires no maintenance" and is a consistent surface. Its not consistent if its tight in the morning and loose in the afternoons. That's the point here, no Baffert complaining.

Part of the reason they're pissed and he didnt do well at Hollywood is b/c he points his horses specifically for the Del Mar meet. If he wanted to win at Hollywood he couldve-More Happy and Maimondes wouldnt have had problems winner over the Cushion track.

[rgustafson]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Because this stuff was untested under these conditions. But that's not even the problem. The problem comes in not being able to see that there are issues that need to be dealt with and then dealing with them. If u see that adjustements need to be made, then u make them immediately. For him to sit there and say the they will do nothing to the track and address everything AFTER the meet is irresponsible, IMO.

King, don't think you are being realistic about this. They have raced over the surface for just two weeks(12 days) and now because a couple of guys complain about it your supposed to start dicking around with the track and see how it responds? This, to me, seems just as irresponsible.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by rgustafson

King, don't think you are being realistic about this. They have raced over the surface for just two weeks(12 days) and now because a couple of guys complain about it your supposed to start dicking around with the track and see how it responds? This, to me, seems just as irresponsible.

It's not just a couple of guys complaining. Believe that. KY Sasquatch just hit it on the head. Baffert is not complaining because he's not winning. He didn't complain at Hollywood either and most important, both he and Zayat say that they LIKE the track at Del Mar. They both say that in the mornings, the track is fine but that it's how it changes in the afternoons that is the concern. They are complaining more about the consistency of the track, not how fast or slow it is.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Riot

Who has said this? (aside from Baffert)

One person I talked to works horses for John Sherriffs and also rides them in the afternoon so he has felt it at both times of the day.

Sherriffs in a DRF article yesterday said "I dont want to comment on the track but we are running ap xcellent on the grass as speed is not doing well on the main track"....

mind you this would have been one of the favorites in a million dollar race in a few weeks.

[lemoncrush]

I was at Del Mar last week, and couldn't believe what that crap looks like up close. It reminded me of the inside of a used vacuum bag.

Anyway, part of the problem when I was there was the quality of racing (Saturday's card was full of low-level claiming races..I could have stayed in MN and watched those at Canterbury). But from what I saw, if you didn't get out of the gate well you were toast. Deep closers had no chance. It was all stalkers and horses coming from just off the pace.

Del Mar is gorgeous, but the racing was mediocre while I was there. The polytrack certainly didn't help.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Polytrack cannot erase one of Del Mar's chronic problems: the racing is essentially the same as what we see thoughout the California racing season. California is on an island, so to speak, meaning that horses aren't shipped there from other parts of the country like at Saratoga. Horses from Kentucky and the Mid-Atlantic region provide the meeting with flavor. Minus a few Pletcher and Dutrow horses shipped out west after the Cushion Track was installed, California's fare hardly changes.

yet somehow the polytrack gets blamed for this?
its the same Del Mar cards as any year. the daily fare is just sorta average for the reasons you mentioned.