Polyhater...

The cheaters will figure how to win on it sooner or later. Maybe they'll have to make a drug that will be like a downer for the first half and an upper for the second.

[The Bid]

Should change the breed for the better if they put some stamina and soundness back into these fragile speedballs.

Who really thinks there are any legit grade 1s in california anyhow?

The Bing Crosby is shaping up to be one of the worst fields in history. The favorite is looking like BATTLE WON.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

All of these major races run over the artifical surfaces have looked like eyesores to me.

Just ugly looking races.

I guess if you like watching slow-paced races, with bunched up fields, and horses racing fairly erratically it might be for you. It's about as entertaining as watching pacers without sulkys.

There is something very beautiful when watching an awesome performance, by a top class horse, in a truly run dirt race.

After I make any notes I need, I tape over these major synthetic races because they are tremendously unenjoyable to watch.

The only two from this year that I know I still have kept tape of are the Blue Grass and Hollywood Gold Cup. Obviously two painfully ugly races to watch, but I had to keep the one because it represented the deepest field in a Derby prep, and the other one because it represented Lava Man's 3rd straight Gold Cup.

Watching Domincan rally wide into the teeth of disgracefully slow fractions, to nab Street Sense, is almost unbearable.

The Hollywood Gold Cup might have been even harder to watch....with Ap Xcellent (who's never won on anything but cushion track) losing to Lava Man by a nose, with a stoutly closing and moderate Big Booster flying at him.

The races are run like turf races, but horses don't close with those exciting late bursts like they do on turf. It's more of a steady grinding move.

If racing everywhere was switched from natural dirt surfaces, to artifical dirt surfaces, I would obviously still be involved in day-to-day betting and nothing like that would change.

But, there is no way I'd consider myself a fan of the sport anymore. I love true dirt racing, and have a video library with tapes of races from virtually every Graded Stakes winner this decade, virtually every Grade 1 winner through the 90's, virtually every champion to race from the 80's, and all of the top horses from the 70's.

I can only speak for myself, but I find polytrack racing to be tremendously boring and uninteresting. Even when you have a bet on the race, you still feel like you want to sleep away the first half of the race.

But hey, we all know how natural dirt is such a demanding and crippling surface.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

But, there is no way I'd consider myself a fan of the sport anymore. I love true dirt racing, and have a video library with tapes of races from virtually every Graded Stakes winner this decade, virtually every Grade 1 winner through the 90's, virtually every champion to race from the 80's, and all of the top horses from the 70's.

Will you put me in your Will?

I get your point in the rest of your post, but I still think the ugliest Grade 1 of the year was the Suburban.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Will you put me in your Will?

I get your point in the rest of your post, but I still think the ugliest Grade 1 of the year was the Suburban.

The Suburban was as bad as it gets....

It was ugly from a quality of competition standpoint, but it was a truly run horse race.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The Suburban was as bad as it gets....

It was ugly from a quality of competition standpoint, but it was a truly run horse race.

the fact the Tokoyo winner was a factor tells you all you need to know

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

All of these major races run over the artifical surfaces have looked like eyesores to me.

Just ugly looking races.

I guess if you like watching slow-paced races, with bunched up fields, and horses racing fairly erratically it might be for you. It's about as entertaining as watching pacers without sulkys.

There is something very beautiful when watching an awesome performance, by a top class horse, in a truly run dirt race.

After I make any notes I need, I tape over these major synthetic races because they are tremendously unenjoyable to watch.

The only two from this year that I know I still have kept tape of are the Blue Grass and Hollywood Gold Cup. Obviously two painfully ugly races to watch, but I had to keep the one because it represented the deepest field in a Derby prep, and the other one because it represented Lava Man's 3rd straight Gold Cup.

Watching Domincan rally wide into the teeth of disgracefully slow fractions, to nab Street Sense, is almost unbearable.

The Hollywood Gold Cup might have been even harder to watch....with Ap Xcellent (who's never won on anything but cushion track) losing to Lava Man by a nose, with a stoutly closing and moderate Big Booster flying at him.

The races are run like turf races, but horses don't close with those exciting late bursts like they do on turf. It's more of a steady grinding move.

If racing everywhere was switched from natural dirt surfaces, to artifical dirt surfaces, I would obviously still be involved in day-to-day betting and nothing like that would change.

But, there is no way I'd consider myself a fan of the sport anymore. I love true dirt racing, and have a video library with tapes of races from virtually every Graded Stakes winner this decade, virtually every Grade 1 winner through the 90's, virtually every champion to race from the 80's, and all of the top horses from the 70's.

I can only speak for myself, but I find polytrack racing to be tremendously boring and uninteresting. Even when you have a bet on the race, you still feel like you want to sleep away the first half of the race.

But hey, we all know how natural dirt is such a demanding and crippling surface.

I agree with much of what you say but the hollywood races still are run like dirt, they dont bunch up as you describe and the fractions are reasonble.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I agree with much of what you say but the hollywood races still are run like dirt, they dont bunch up as you describe and the fractions are reasonble.

The longer they go, the worse speed seems to do at HP.

As I'm sure you know, looking at naked fractions can be overrated, because a track can be made to play faster. It doesn't change the way the races are run much at all, but it does help produce times that aren't silly looking.

Last fall at Keeneland, the polytrack was strongly favoring closers and the paces were comically slow. After a few weeks, I remember articles being written complaining about the ridiculious way those races had been run. Beyer among them.

They made the track very fast for the final few days of the meet, Calculating Man broke the six furlong track record, and suffered a fatal injury right after the wire.

For whatever reason, that breakdown went unreported, but I believe I'd heard it was caused by a back injury.

[JJP]

Polytrack races are brutal to watch. I loved betting AP for 25 years and I can barely watch their non-grass races now. And Kee is even worse.

IMO, the only track that really needed a synthetic surface was Turfway, and IMO, of the artificial surfaces in use now, plays more like dirt than the others.

[The Bid]

None of them needed polytrack. They needed to reconfigure, and relay the dirt, its sad

[Antitrust32]

The final time for the 1 and 1/16th race at Arlington over the polycrap with Pavarotti was 1:49 3/5.

The final time for the 1 and 1/8th Swaps over dirt was a full second faster 1:48 3/5.


I wonder if that means Tiago would have won the Arlington race by 35 lengths or so?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

The final time for the 1 and 1/16th race at Arlington over the polycrap with Pavarotti was 1:49 3/5.

The final time for the 1 and 1/8th Swaps over dirt was a full second faster 1:48 3/5.


I wonder if that means Tiago would have won the Arlington race by 35 lengths or so?

Lori the Arlington race was a mile and an eighth as well, they don't run a mile and a sixteenth at Arlington (it's a 9F oval, like Saratoga, so the gate would be like 30 yards from the turn).

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

They made the track very fast for the final few days of the meet, Calculating Man broke the six furlong track record, and suffered a fatal injury right after the wire.

For whatever reason, that breakdown went unreported, but I believe I'd heard it was caused by a back injury.

I know it is completely off topic, but what did you think of First Defence today?

[ateamstupid]

From the little AP races I've seen this meet, the poly seems to be pretty fair. KEE, however, was an absolute joke in the spring. Not sure if it's the weather, the upkeep or what, but I'd bet AP over KEE in a heartbeat right now.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I know it is completely off topic, but what did you think of First Defence today?

I haven't really put the race under a microscope, but from watching it, my impression was that I don't think we learned a whole lot about how good he is today.

He had a fairly soft looking trip, and was beating a field of horses he seemed very capable of beating.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

All of these major races run over the artifical surfaces have looked like eyesores to me.

Just ugly looking races.

I guess if you like watching slow-paced races, with bunched up fields, and horses racing fairly erratically it might be for you. It's about as entertaining as watching pacers without sulkys.

There is something very beautiful when watching an awesome performance, by a top class horse, in a truly run dirt race.

After I make any notes I need, I tape over these major synthetic races because they are tremendously unenjoyable to watch.

The only two from this year that I know I still have kept tape of are the Blue Grass and Hollywood Gold Cup. Obviously two painfully ugly races to watch, but I had to keep the one because it represented the deepest field in a Derby prep, and the other one because it represented Lava Man's 3rd straight Gold Cup.

Watching Domincan rally wide into the teeth of disgracefully slow fractions, to nab Street Sense, is almost unbearable.

The Hollywood Gold Cup might have been even harder to watch....with Ap Xcellent (who's never won on anything but cushion track) losing to Lava Man by a nose, with a stoutly closing and moderate Big Booster flying at him.

The races are run like turf races, but horses don't close with those exciting late bursts like they do on turf. It's more of a steady grinding move.

If racing everywhere was switched from natural dirt surfaces, to artifical dirt surfaces, I would obviously still be involved in day-to-day betting and nothing like that would change.

But, there is no way I'd consider myself a fan of the sport anymore. I love true dirt racing, and have a video library with tapes of races from virtually every Graded Stakes winner this decade, virtually every Grade 1 winner through the 90's, virtually every champion to race from the 80's, and all of the top horses from the 70's.

I can only speak for myself, but I find polytrack racing to be tremendously boring and uninteresting. Even when you have a bet on the race, you still feel like you want to sleep away the first half of the race.

But hey, we all know how natural dirt is such a demanding and crippling surface.

You saved me a lot of time typing by expressing my thoughts exactly.

[fpsoxfan]

Watching Domincan rally wide into the teeth of disgracefully slow fractions, to nab Street Sense, is almost unbearable.

Agreed Drugs...That race was the closest imitation to Harness Racing I've ever seen since following T-breds. It was the worst and most confusing race of the prep races. Poly sucks. I know, as handicappers we are supposed to make the adjustment, but I still hate it. If It ever reaches the entire NYRA circuit, I may retire from the game and take up a new addiction.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by fpsoxfan

Watching Domincan rally wide into the teeth of disgracefully slow fractions, to nab Street Sense, is almost unbearable.

Agreed Drugs...That race was the closest imitation to Harness Racing I've ever seen since following T-breds. It was the worst and most confusing race of the prep races. Poly sucks. I know, as handicappers we are supposed to make the adjustment, but I still hate it. If It ever reaches the entire NYRA circuit, I may retire from the game and take up a new addiction.

Best "non-quote" of the year!

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by fpsoxfan

Watching Domincan rally wide into the teeth of disgracefully slow fractions, to nab Street Sense, is almost unbearable.

Agreed Drugs...That race was the closest imitation to Harness Racing I've ever seen since following T-breds. It was the worst and most confusing race of the prep races. Poly sucks. I know, as handicappers we are supposed to make the adjustment, but I still hate it. If It ever reaches the entire NYRA circuit, I may retire from the game and take up a new addiction.

I've already started to do that with the Southern California races. I can count on two hands the total number of races I watched at the Hollywood meet and after day one of Del Mar, I refuse to watch that junk anymore. Maybe I'll watch the Pacific Classic but that's it. It's just not thoroughbred racing anymore. It's absolutely sad. From a betting perspective, it's still the same. U have a surface that u have to try to figure out who has the best chance of winning on that day. But from a fan perspective, it's trash. When u can't tell the difference between graded stakes horses and low level claimers because they run all of the races the same way, it's sad. Run 50 second half miles and claimers are able to finish with stakes horses. We saw that in the Blue Grass.

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Should change the breed for the better if they put some stamina and soundness back into these fragile speedballs.

Who really thinks there are any legit grade 1s in california anyhow?

The Bing Crosby is shaping up to be one of the worst fields in history. The favorite is looking like BATTLE WON.

Most of the people on this board!!!!