Margaret Sanger--Halo tipping a bit?

[golfer]

Timm, if you look deeply enough into most things, past and present, you will find many are not what they appear to be, in fact, the exact opposite of what they claim to stand for.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by golfer

Timm, if you look deeply enough into most things, past and present, you will find many are not what they appear to be, in fact, the exact opposite of what they claim to stand for.

Golfer: you could be correct,but Planned Parenthood made record profits last year...and her praises were sung strongly on this forum last week!

We would not need Planned Parenthood if people who were against abortion would step up to the plate and adopt. Talk is cheap. Go save a life. Adopt.

What I find interesting is that males can deny a woman her right to choose because they are not having the child. So for males to have a solid moral foundation, go talk a woman out of an abortion and promise to adopt her child. Otherwise, you are talking the talk, but not walking the walk. And ranting is dirt cheap if you dont live it.

So lets start a list of people who are against a woman's right to choose, and have adopted a child that was going to be aborted... I will start the numbering. These will be the people who really hold the moral high ground.

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[timmgirvan]

[quote=pgardn]We would not need Planned Parenthood if people who were against abortion would step up to the plate and adopt. Talk is cheap. Go save a life. Adopt.

What I find interesting is that males can deny a woman her right to choose because they are not having the child. So for males to have a solid moral foundation, go talk a woman out of an abortion and promise to adopt her child. Otherwise, you are talking the talk, but not walking the walk. And ranting is dirt cheap if you dont live it.

So lets start a list of people who are against a woman's right to choose, and have adopted a child that was going to be aborted... I will start the numbering. These will be the people who really hold the moral high ground.

1.
2.
3.[/QUOTE
Pgardn: Peculiar post from you,I think! I wasn't talking about a womans' right to choose. How does it become the right to lifers responsiblity to adopt every unwanted child? You suppose much about what I think. If you bothered to read the links, you'd see that Margaret Sanger was hardly the "Clarion of Light and Family Values" that she's been made out to be!

[quote=timmgirvanPgardn: Peculiar post from you,I think! I wasn't talking about a womans' right to choose. How does it become the right to lifers responsiblity to adopt every unwanted child? You suppose much about what I think. If you bothered to read the links, you'd see that Margaret Sanger was hardly the "Clarion of Light and Family Values" that she's been made out to be![/QUOTE]

Peculiar quote from me? I go off topic all the time.

I read the link. It was interesting as I had never heard the white people dont like black people so they want abortion arguement before.

So do we have any anti-abortion/death folks (or against a woman's right to choose;keeping all parties happy) that have adopted a child that was to be aborted?

Any?

I know of two families. They walk the walk, and strangely... they dont talk about it much. Dont hold up signs and shout people down. They will tell you if asked, but no advertising.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by pgardn

So do we have any anti-abortion/death folks (or against a woman's right to choose;keeping all parties happy) that have adopted a child that was to be aborted?

Any?

I know of two families. They walk the walk, and strangely... they dont talk about it much. Dont hold up signs and shout people down. They will tell you if asked, but no advertising.

Pgardn: you have supplanted your arguement for my links to MS! What kind of a standard is that you hold? You seem too harsh on yourself...as I see you as morally correct in what you contribute. The subject was how the family planning group that was so helpful(?)in the beginning is now a Billion dollar abortion mill(for their own purposes)not for the unfortunate young women who seek their guidance!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by pgardn

So do we have any anti-abortion/death folks (or against a woman's right to choose;keeping all parties happy) that have adopted a child that was to be aborted?

Any?

I know of two families. They walk the walk, and strangely... they dont talk about it much. Dont hold up signs and shout people down. They will tell you if asked, but no advertising.

I've adopted three horses to save them from slaughter, dozens of cats and dogs over the years...never was in position to adopt a child...sorry that I don't meet your standard!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by pgardn

We would not need Planned Parenthood if people who were against abortion would step up to the plate and adopt. Talk is cheap. Go save a life. Adopt.

What I find interesting is that males can deny a woman her right to choose because they are not having the child. So for males to have a solid moral foundation, go talk a woman out of an abortion and promise to adopt her child. Otherwise, you are talking the talk, but not walking the walk. And ranting is dirt cheap if you dont live it.

So lets start a list of people who are against a woman's right to choose, and have adopted a child that was going to be aborted... I will start the numbering. These will be the people who really hold the moral high ground.

1.
2.
3.

Sorry Pgardn, I can't let that slide...whether abortion is right or wrong isn't determined by the actions of either side, it is determined by whether it is right or wrong! Attacking the messenger won't fly....if Hitler came out and said genocide was wrong...the fact that he was a monster wouldn't make that statement false. I agree that folks should adopt more, I agree that young women shouldn't be reduced to slavery by their womb but I oppose abortion and...contrary to the vast majority of my feminist friends, I think that is the correct position for a feminist but that's another subject.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Sorry Pgardn, I can't let that slide...whether abortion is right or wrong isn't determined by the actions of either side, it is determined by whether it is right or wrong! Attacking the messenger won't fly....if Hitler came out and said genocide was wrong...the fact that he was a monster wouldn't make that statement false. I agree that folks should adopt more, I agree that young women shouldn't be reduced to slavery by their womb but I oppose abortion and...contrary to the vast majority of my feminist friends, I think that is the correct position for a feminist but that's another subject.

Somer,
I know your position, and I applaud you for not equivocating.
As you know, I also believe there should be more adoptions, better care for children, resoultion of endless foster care for so many abandoned children, and harsher laws for those that abuse and prey on them.
That said, and I only ask this because I differ with you on the topic of "when life begins", do you think the "state" should be the determinant regarding what any human being does with their own body, or should that decision be left to the individual?
In my humble view, decisions of that magnitude are best left to the person that makes them, not the "state".

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Somer,
I know your position, and I applaud you for not equivocating.
As you know, I also believe there should be more adoptions, better care for children, resoultion of endless foster care for so many abandoned children, and harsher laws for those that abuse and prey on them.
That said, and I only ask this because I differ with you on the topic of "when life begins", do you think the "state" should be the determinant regarding what any human being does with their own body, or should that decision be left to the individual?
In my humble view, decisions of that magnitude are best left to the person that makes them, not the "state".

Each of us has the ultimate decision regarding our own bodies but if that is a human being inside a woman, does he/she not have the same right? We talk about a woman's right to choose, but we deny that right to the fetus/baby...statistically speaking, half of which are female. To me, what the abortionists are saying is that some people have rights and some don't and society gets to choose which lives are more valuable. If that is a living being inside a woman, what makes his/her life less valuable, less sacred? The debate has never been about a woman's rights, it's about life...when does it begin and, more importantly to me, when does it have a soul?

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Sorry Pgardn, I can't let that slide...whether abortion is right or wrong isn't determined by the actions of either side, it is determined by whether it is right or wrong! Attacking the messenger won't fly....if Hitler came out and said genocide was wrong...the fact that he was a monster wouldn't make that statement false. I agree that folks should adopt more, I agree that young women shouldn't be reduced to slavery by their womb but I oppose abortion and...contrary to the vast majority of my feminist friends, I think that is the correct position for a feminist but that's another subject.

What I am basically saying is a male that says he is against a womans right to choose, yet has not adopted a child that was to be aborted, does not hold the moral high ground in a discussion. If you really believe a life is being taken then go save it... Thats what I am saying.

If you have done so, I have the ultimate respect for your position as I think abortion is horrible, but a very difficult ethical problem quite obviously. I cannot possibly go up to a woman and say to her face, you must have that child, I will adopt the child. I am not in a position to say that. Therefore I will not attempt to interject my personal feelings on her more dire decision. I would feel like I had absolutely no right to speak to the woman face to face, or yell at her and call her a killer. Thats chicken sh it.

Walk the walk. Its very simple. One can oppose a position. Thats easy. But could you actually take the step and adopt a child that was to be aborted. I could not. Therefore I can oppose anything I want, but my standing I believe would be way down the scale as I have not taken action. I would be all talk with no walk.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Golfer: you could be correct,but Planned Parenthood made record profits last year...and her praises were sung strongly on this forum last week!

timm,
Let's be honest for just a minute.
1) I don't know much about Sanger, so I'll not comment.
2) The context in which her name came up on this forum was one that was dealing with Bush's second veto concerned with expansion of stem cell lines harvested from unused (no longer viable) embryos at fertility clinics.
3) One person's trash (medical waste) is another one's treasure (genetic reserchers seeking remedies for genetic diseases, and those that would benefit from same).
4) The "Snowflake Project" has brought 120-140 of those embyos to term.

So...what do you suggest doing with the other 499,880?
Dumpster or lab?

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

timm,
Let's be honest for just a minute.
1) I don't know much about Sanger, so I'll not comment.
2) The context in which her name came up on this forum was one that was dealing with Bush's second veto concerned with expansion of stem cell lines harvested from unused (no longer viable) embryos at fertility clinics.
3) One person's trash (medical waste) is another one's treasure (genetic reserchers seeking remedies for genetic diseases, and those that would benefit from same).
4) The "Snowflake Project" has brought 120-140 of those embyos to term.

So...what do you suggest doing with the other 499,880?
Dumpster or lab?

Well...since my whole post was about Sanger, get back to me when you know something about her!