The Mother Goose Stakes

[ateamstupid]

So are we blaming Pletcher for the embarrassing Suburban field too or are we admitting that the major problem is that 99% of owners are total pussies?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

So are we blaming Pletcher for the embarrassing Suburban field too or are we admitting that the major problem is that 99% of owners are total pussies?

Who is missing?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Who is missing?

Papi Chullo, Sun King, Premium Tap? I guess the two-week gap from the Foster contributes as well.

[iceman967]

Does the triple tiara still consist of the Acorn, Mother Goose, and CCAO?

[declansharbor]

Any idea on the m/l for Political Force...Hand over fist if at a square price...

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by iceman967

Does the triple tiara still consist of the Acorn, Mother Goose, and CCAO?

I thought it was the Mother Goose, CCA Oaks and Alabama.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I thought it was the Mother Goose, CCA Oaks and Alabama.

Triple Tiara is the Acorn, Mother Goose and CCA Oaks.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Papi Chullo, Sun King, Premium Tap? I guess the two-week gap from the Foster contributes as well.

Premium Tap will never run again in the US. Papi Chullo grabbed a quarter in the Birdstone Stakes, not sure about Sun King but a mile and a quarter isn't his ideal distance so he may just be sitting out for the Whitney.

[Rootdog1]

Since a family member of mine owns the mare of Lady Joanne (Oatsee) I am really pulling for her to get this G1 win. She is a half to Bahgdaria (sp?).

[Linny]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Papi Chullo, Sun King, Premium Tap? I guess the two-week gap from the Foster contributes as well.

Premium Tap is in Saudi Arabia. He's NOT COMING BACK. He's GONE!
(sorry to yell but I get asked about him every 3 days!)

I'd like to see Sun King back. Papi appears to have hurt himself. AP Arrow is in the Hollywood Gold Cup. Todd is flipping him and Fairbanks.
It sure does seem like there should be a few more top class older horses for this. I know Invasor might have scared some off, but geez, take a shot and nominate. It seems odd that Political Force and Corinthian are all we can muster for the historic Suburban. This is what happens when 3yo's are retired. Horses like Bluegrass Cat, Bernardini, etc could (arguably) have been even better this year and made the "older horse" division more fun. Next year wont be much better. SS and HS are done this year and Rags will stay w/fillies. Maybe they will keep Curlin going.

Don't even get me going on the Ma Goose. From the Acorn, only Boca Grande comes back. There were 14 in the Oaks and only 1 shows up here. No Cotton Blossom, no Christmas Kid, no ...no fun...

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Linny

Premium Tap is in Saudi Arabia. He's NOT COMING BACK. He's GONE!
(sorry to yell but I get asked about him every 3 days!)

I'd like to see Sun King back. Papi appears to have hurt himself. AP Arrow is in the Hollywood Gold Cup. Todd is flipping him and Fairbanks.
It sure does seem like there should be a few more top class older horses for this. I know Invasor might have scared some off, but geez, take a shot and nominate. It seems odd that Political Force and Corinthian are all we can muster for the historic Suburban.

Don't even get me going on the Ma Goose. From the Acorn, only Boca Grande comes back. There were 14 in the Oaks and only 1 shows up here. No Cotton Blossom, no Christmas Kid, no ...no fun...

I think I read in the Form that Christmas Kid is going to Turf.

Fairbank's still holds that lofty post of highest Beyer of the year over a mile. Who knows, maybe he'll duplicate it and enrich the older male division for a whole 2 more starts on the season ( ).

[Storm Cadet]

At this rate Rags to Riches will have a match race in the Alabama if she runs there....if nobody wants to run in the Goose and pick up easy purse money...who would want to run vs RTR? Bad for racing

And I wonder how much of a hit NYRA takes with the purse payout?

If the Nomination fee is only $250.00 and only a handful actually paid the $2500 to pass the entry box and start...where does NYRA get the $$$ to pay out $250,000. $10,000 in entry fees and they have to shell out $250,00 in purse?

Same with the Suburban...$400 to nominate and another small field which paid the $4,000 to start. The 4th place horse gets 5% and will get $20,000. The 5th place horse will get 3% and $12,000. I should have entered 6 year old Diligent Gambler and told the jockey to get 4th or 5th place if he could and triple my money! NYRA gets a little over $24,000 in entry fees and shells out $400,00.

No wonder they lose millions! And in this case it's not NYRA's fault.

[blackthroatedwind]

The problem with the Suburban is that with Invasor dropping out so late most people/horses simply couldn't be ready on short notice. Plus, horses that might have gone here, had they known Invasor was out, ran in the Foster to avoid him. It seems reasonable that one of Master Command or Magna Graduate would have run here instead and very possibly Wanderin Boy.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

At this rate Rags to Riches will have a match race in the Alabama if she runs there....if nobody wants to run in the Goose and pick up easy purse money...who would want to run vs RTR? Bad for racing

That's a good point. If the mighty Octave is scaring entrants away (not saying that's actually what happened here), then who's going to want to face Rags to Riches? Can you say walkover? I can't imagine it will happen, but you can't blame anyone for thinking it might.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

At this rate Rags to Riches will have a match race in the Alabama if she runs there....if nobody wants to run in the Goose and pick up easy purse money...who would want to run vs RTR? Bad for racing

And I wonder how much of a hit NYRA takes with the purse payout?

If the Nomination fee is only $250.00 and only a handful actually paid the $2500 to pass the entry box and start...where does NYRA get the $$$ to pay out $250,000. $10,000 in entry fees and they have to shell out $250,00 in purse?

Same with the Suburban...$400 to nominate and another small field which paid the $4,000 to start. The 4th place horse gets 5% and will get $20,000. The 5th place horse will get 3% and $12,000. I should have entered 6 year old Diligent Gambler and told the jockey to get 4th or 5th place if he could and triple my money! NYRA gets a little over $24,000 in entry fees and shells out $400,00.

No wonder they lose millions! And in this case it's not NYRA's fault.

The money all comes from the purse account. The amount for stakes races is negotiated by the track and the horsemans organization. That is why you see races like the Pimlico Special being cancelled. The horseman cry foul if a few big dollar stakes cause there to be a deficit in the purse account. The track is not actually putting up any of the money. And when you see a race is 'guaranteed', it another way of saying "the track is going to keep all the entry and nomination fees". When you see 'added', the track puts the money in the purse which actually makes the race worth more. The year I won the West Point Hdcp the purse was $100k added. The final purse was close to $120k. Obviously it is better for the horseman when you are running not only for the purse but to get your own money back.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Papi Chullo, Sun King, Premium Tap? I guess the two-week gap from the Foster contributes as well.

Not exactly the who's who of racing legends. I guess it was my wiseguy way of saying that there is no legit older horse division anymore. Simply does not exist. Sure there are some decent older horses around but are really any of them truly better than ok? Sad state of affairs.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Not exactly the who's who of racing legends. I guess it was my wiseguy way of saying that there is no legit older horse division anymore. Simply does not exist. Sure there are some decent older horses around but are really any of them truly better than ok? Sad state of affairs.

That is why I thought Invasor retiring left such a hole. He was the only horse you could point to and say confirdently, yes, that is a true standout GR1 performer.

otherwise we're left with a bunch of questions marks and so-so campaigners. Personally I think Premium Tap moved last year into the category of consistent GR1 horse, but I guess he may not race again over here. Rags and Curlin may be better right now than all of the current older horses, and that shouldn't be.

thats why in stakes races these days I look for the horse in the best current form, regardless of class because there is not such a big class differential that a sharp in-form horse cannot overcome.

[Storm Cadet]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Who is missing?

Cannon here are the horses that were NOMINATED for both stakes races.

Suburban Nominations:

http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbH...0070630-469233


Mother Goose Nominations:

http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbH...0070630-469229

[philcski]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

So are we blaming Pletcher for the embarrassing Suburban field too or are we admitting that the major problem is that 99% of owners are total pussies?

Not the Suburban, just the Mother Goose. He holds the trump cards in the 3YO filly division and chose to enter just one. The rest of the owners/trainers with potential entrants are pussies, though, I agree.

In the Suburban, he entered the one he had ready. Can't fault him for anything there.

Chuck, this may sound crazy but if you had known the field would come up this light (and she was ready, of course) would you have entered Sumwon? It's a freeroll, $2,750 to start and $7,500 guaranteed for 5th.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by philcski

Chuck, this may sound crazy but if you had known the field would come up this light (and she was ready, of course) would you have entered Sumwon? It's a freeroll, $2,750 to start and $7,500 guaranteed for 5th.

If I stabled close to NY, probably. What if you dont enter and 2 scratch? I have made some owners quite a bit of money in both real purses and bloodstock value by entering and running in short field stakes.