Rags!!!!!!!!!!!!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I hope people don't get too carried away and talk about her like she's an all-time great filly...and certainly this was no all-time great training job.

Rags to Riches simply belonged in this race....last out, she ran an identical speed figure to what older male Wanderin Boy earned---while over the same track, on the same day, with the more difficult trip of the two. Which assured she'd be in this race--regardless of whoelse did or didn't show.

From a pedigree standpoint, she projected for major improvement on the three furlong stretchout in distance....as she's by the #1 dirt racing distance sire in the game---and out of tremendously stamina laden female family.

She owned a gigantic edge in pedigree over Curlin for the distance---and, getting five pounds in weight over 12 furlongs didn't hurt either.

Don't get me wrong---she certainly enhanced her standing with her performance today...but not as much as people seem to be acting. I've liked her a lot all along---but I just hope people don't get carried away.

She's the first filly in history to win the Belmont at 12 furlongs and she beat a freak in Curlin...I don't think that one can help but think that she may join the best....she needs to beat the boys again and beat older horses, if she does that...she breaks into the short list. I see her as sorta like Lady's Secret (different style to a degree but she reminds me of her grit)...the top two fillies ever to race imo are Kincsem and Ruffian, not near those yet but certainly could be as good as any others!

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

She's the first filly in history to win the Belmont at 12 furlongs and she beat a freak in Curlin...I don't think that one can help but think that she may join the best....she needs to beat the boys again and beat older horses, if she does that...she breaks into the short list. I see her as sorta like Lady's Secret (different style to a degree but she reminds me of her grit)...the top two fillies ever to race imo are Kincsem and Ruffian, not near those yet but certainly could be as good as any others!

She needs to run a bit faster, the best fillys run around 110 beyers, she needs to get there, but she could if you are looking at historical contest. I think Inside Information ran a 119.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

She's the first filly in history to win the Belmont at 12 furlongs and she beat a freak in Curlin...

I believe that Curlins status as a freak is a little bit cloudy

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I believe that Curlins status as a freak is a little bit cloudy

To his credit---he answered the bell every time...and made a good account of himself in all three triple crown races.

From a pedigree standpoint--what he has done has been nothing short of freaky....because anyone who studies pedigree and is honest with themselves about it...knows that he's not the type of horse who's supposed to be effective at a classic distance.

But yeah, this has been a low-rated crop of 3yo males that Curlin has excelled in.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

To his credit---he answered the bell every time...and made a good account of himself in all three triple crown races.

From a pedigree standpoint--what he has done has been nothing short of freaky....because anyone who studies pedigree and is honest with themselves about it...knows that he's not the type of horse who's supposed to be effective at a classic distance.

But yeah, this has been a low-rated crop of 3yo males that Curlin has excelled in.

I guess I'm getting old but making a good account of himself doesn't really equate into freak status. He is a very good horse who has accomplished much in a short period of time but I like my freaks to win.

On another note- I think that the purchase and pending retirement of Hard Spun is one of the really distressing signs of trouble in our sport. I mean it is one thing to retire horses who WIN classic races early, but to rush horses like him to the shed without ever winning a major race is a sad thing. Not to say he wont(though I would bet against it) but he was sold for multiple grade 1 money and he is a zero time grade 1 winner.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I guess I'm getting old but making a good account of himself doesn't really equate into freak status. He is a very good horse who has accomplished much in a short period of time but I like my freaks to win.

On another note- I think that the purchase and pending retirement of Hard Spun is one of the really distressing signs of trouble in our sport. I mean it is one thing to retire horses who WIN classic races early, but to rush horses like him to the shed without ever winning a major race is a sad thing. Not to say he wont(though I would bet against it) but he was sold for multiple grade 1 money and he is a zero time grade 1 winner.

he's running faster to the shed than he has to the finish line in these grade ones because of his pedigree--just like holy roman emperor, who didn't even start at three! it is a shame.

now you have to wonder if he runs again. i hope he does, but darley might not want him to.

[ArlJim78]

Rags had about the same trip as Curlin, except for stumbling at the start and racing wider.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Rags had about the same trip as Curlin, except for stumbling at the start and racing wider.

What else do you want? The psycho chinese guy from the Artax race?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

he's running faster to the shed than he has to the finish line in these grade ones because of his pedigree--just like holy roman emperor, who didn't even start at three! it is a shame.

now you have to wonder if he runs again. i hope he does, but darley might not want him to.

Holy Roman Emperor was a flukey deal where he replaced a stallion that already had a huge and strong group of mare booked. Hard Spun's pedigree while nice is not strong enough to warrant early retirement without major wins. I'm sure Darley wants him to run again because he needs to win something.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Holy Roman Emperor was a flukey deal where he replaced a stallion that already had a huge and strong group of mare booked. Hard Spun's pedigree while nice is not strong enough to warrant early retirement without major wins. I'm sure Darley wants him to run again because he needs to win something.

yeah, it was a flukey deal.

of course porter doesn't have a done deal, it was supposed to be settled after the belmont today. altho i'm sure they still buy his rights, they just got them cheaper.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I guess I'm getting old but making a good account of himself doesn't really equate into freak status. He is a very good horse who has accomplished much in a short period of time but I like my freaks to win.

On another note- I think that the purchase and pending retirement of Hard Spun is one of the really distressing signs of trouble in our sport. I mean it is one thing to retire horses who WIN classic races early, but to rush horses like him to the shed without ever winning a major race is a sad thing. Not to say he wont(though I would bet against it) but he was sold for multiple grade 1 money and he is a zero time grade 1 winner.

Very Good point Chuck!!

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

She's the first filly in history to win the Belmont at 12 furlongs and she beat a freak in Curlin...I don't think that one can help but think that she may join the best....she needs to beat the boys again and beat older horses, if she does that...she breaks into the short list. I see her as sorta like Lady's Secret (different style to a degree but she reminds me of her grit)...the top two fillies ever to race imo are Kincsem and Ruffian, not near those yet but certainly could be as good as any others!

i dont buy this curlin being a freak thing either. he's really good, but i think the preakness was somewhat fraudulent, and curlin's success is bolstered by the lack of depth in this crop. he's a really nice horse, and he's going to win more races, but there is no way his preakness was one of the best ever run, let alone the best.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Yeah I am in agreement with this, which is why I found it so fascinating that Street Sense got the shaft here after the Preakness. They're both very nice horses, personally I don't see much separating them. So if Curlin is a freak, what's Street Sense? And Rags To Riches is a really nice filly also. The talks of her being an all time great are as premature as the talks of Bernardini being an all time great after his Travers last year, but I guess we just have to get used to it now.

altho i'm not ready to put this crop on par with the one that brought us round table, iron liege, bold ruler, etc....i think this crop is getting a bit less respect than it deserves.
curlins' preakness win was a record tying effort, with him on the books as tying the stakes time.
street sense is the first two year old champ to win the derby in 28 years, the first bcj winner to win the derby, and was within a head bob of being on the books as tying the preakness stakes record--this after his season opener (when he 'wasn't at his best') and broke the tampa record...
now you've got a filly who is the first to win the belmont in 102 years, and the first to win it at 12 panels....


too soon to see how they all shake out, but i don't think this is a subpar crop at all. i think they've given a good accounting to this point. and don't forget, that bold ruler crop, there were three winners in the three classics....but please, don't take me saying that as indication i'm saying these will make such a lasting mark--they won't. chances are that none of the top of this crop will be around long enough to do so.