russia

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pgardn

The system cant be directed. It is an antimissle system which Russia does not like because it might limit their chances of striking back if they get hit first. And since it is "our" system, Russia has every right to ask why Europe does not build on its own.
So I think the real attempt is as stated. You dont want rogue states firing any type of missle, conventional or not, without the slightest bit of worry about a retaliatory strike as they will martyr the whole nation readily.
Israel takes this threat very seriously. Given that Iran has OPENLY stated they seek to destroy Israel... and we take the threat seriously because of alliances. We dont want to have to strike an entire nation of innocent people because of a heaven bent leader.
I dont see this as a joking matter. Israel is already back at it again in Gaza and the West Bank. Lebanon is now falling apart again, big suprise there.

Pgardn,
You pose an interesting thought. Yes, Israel is the one that feels threatened,
and, yes, they have no interest in seeking resolution with the Palastinians nor their proxies in Lebanon.
So, how about this...put the anti missile system in Israel rather than in the Chec Republic? Afterall, if Iran is really the "worry", though they have about ten years to develop a missile delivery system, and at least seven to develop a nuclear capability, it allows plenty of time for the installation to take place.
What do you really think is behing Bush's "saber rattling" at this point in time?
He only has, what 17 months to come up with a legacy, and it needs to distract from Iraq as much as Paris Hilton does. Right?

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Pgardn,
You pose an interesting thought. Yes, Israel is the one that feels threatened,
and, yes, they have no interest in seeking resolution with the Palastinians nor their proxies in Lebanon.
So, how about this...put the anti missile system in Israel rather than in the Chec Republic? Afterall, if Iran is really the "worry", though they have about ten years to develop a missile delivery system, and at least seven to develop a nuclear capability, it allows plenty of time for the installation to take place.
What do you really think is behing Bush's "saber rattling" at this point in time?
He only has, what 17 months to come up with a legacy, and it needs to distract from Iraq as much as Paris Hilton does. Right?

Iran already has a missle delivery system in place. Its not in Iran. And Israel has budding missle defense system. But it does not work well because there is not enough time to get some of these missles that are fired closely. The worry is other Countries like Azerbaijan, will go militant also. Lots of ex Soviet south east states are having this problem. This is why we gave Russia so much latitude with their little terrorist problem. Remember Chechnya. These runaway Islamic extremist countries scare them also.

Luckily the missles fired out of Gaza consistently every day now, are not terribly destructive. They just make half of a town of 23,000 civilians leave in Israel. (Imagine if Mexico tried this with our border) The bigger fear is the future of longer range missles. And missle defense systems must be out ahead... and thats very difficult. Given the tricks that can be played. It is much easier to deliver than hit a missle out of the sky. Ever wonder why Iran does not look into missle defense. Its hard. And to be a major player all you need is nukes and delivery. This is where they want to be. They want to be able to keep the "to hell with it card, we will hit you first, it does not matter what happens after that. Go ahead, destroy us, we can still make the world a mess."

I think its fairly apparent we dont want to play that game.

they have no interest in seeking resolution with the Palastinians nor their proxies in Lebanon

What?
Who is Israel supposed to negotiate with? Which authority? DTS cmon... thats just silly.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pgardn

they have no interest in seeking resolution with the Palastinians nor their proxies in Lebanon

What?
Who is Israel supposed to negotiate with? Which authority? DTS cmon... thats just silly.

Pgardn,
Israel previously negotiated to initiate a "Palestinian State". It would go quite far to calm things down if they abided by their agreement.
Their recent actions in Gaza only inflame the tensions.

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Pgardn,
Israel previously negotiated to initiate a "Palestinian State". It would go quite far to calm things down if they abided by their agreement.
Their recent actions in Gaza only inflame the tensions.

There is no entity to negotiate with DTS. Israel will not negotiate with Hamas, they have vowed to destroy Israel. Yassir Arafat ruined whatever chance there was way back. Still have not found all the money he stole from the Palestinian people.
Lebanon cannot even negotiate with the Palestinians in camps in their own country. Jordan does not want any Palestinians in their country. No Arab country wants anything to do with them except to harass Israel. They have been screwed by multiple factions and Israel is always to blame.

BTW. Nice to have you back.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pgardn

There is no entity to negotiate with DTS. Israel will not negotiate with Hamas, they have vowed to destroy Israel. Yassir Arafat ruined whatever chance there was way back. Still have not found all the money he stole from the Palestinian people.
Lebanon cannot even negotiate with the Palestinians in camps in their own country. Jordan does not want any Palestinians in their country. No Arab country wants anything to do with them except to harass Israel. They have been screwed by multiple factions and Israel is always to blame.

BTW. Nice to have you back.

Pgardn,
I'm just going way back to the Camp David accord. At this point, all the wall building and the bombing of refugee camps isn't helping to resolve a very complicated and dangerous situation.
And, thanks for the welcome back. I've tried not to post so much "political stuff" as I know this is a horse racing board and some of my views upset others. So, I tried to "cool it" for a while, and the training one of my 2yo fillies is taking some time, but she should be good.
DTS

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Iran already has a missle delivery system in place. Its not in Iran. And Israel has budding missle defense system. But it does not work well because there is not enough time to get some of these missles that are fired closely. The worry is other Countries like Azerbaijan, will go militant also. Lots of ex Soviet south east states are having this problem. This is why we gave Russia so much latitude with their little terrorist problem. Remember Chechnya. These runaway Islamic extremist countries scare them also.

Luckily the missles fired out of Gaza consistently every day now, are not terribly destructive. They just make half of a town of 23,000 civilians leave in Israel. (Imagine if Mexico tried this with our border) The bigger fear is the future of longer range missles. And missle defense systems must be out ahead... and thats very difficult. Given the tricks that can be played. It is much easier to deliver than hit a missle out of the sky. Ever wonder why Iran does not look into missle defense. Its hard. And to be a major player all you need is nukes and delivery. This is where they want to be. They want to be able to keep the "to hell with it card, we will hit you first, it does not matter what happens after that. Go ahead, destroy us, we can still make the world a mess."

I think its fairly apparent we dont want to play that game.

Pgardn,
I've been searching to try to find substantiation of the claim you made in your first sentence. No luck.
So, where exactly does Iran have their missiles sited?
I have been unable to find any mention of long range testing. If you know a site where testing has been documented, please supply.
Here's something I found on the topic presented, and it seems to back my earlier statements regarding Iran's nuclear development and missile program.
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/edcut?pid=203257

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Pgardn,
I've been searching to try to find substantiation of the claim you made in your first sentence. No luck.
So, where exactly does Iran have their missiles sited?

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/edcut?pid=203257

Iraq, Lebanon, Gaza strip.

They leave the labels on the things so its pretty darn obvious. Oh yes, these are the ones that have been fired. Not the ones transported and not fired. You dont remember Lebanon DTS? You dont remember the Iranian made rockets fired across the border?

Well you will remember, again... Its going to happen again as the Lebanese government is losing control.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Iraq, Lebanon, Gaza strip.

They leave the labels on the things so its pretty darn obvious. Oh yes, these are the ones that have been fired. Not the ones transported and not fired. You dont remember Lebanon DTS? You dont remember the Iranian made rockets fired across the border?

Well you will remember, again... Its going to happen again as the Lebanese government is losing control.

Thanks Pgardn,
Yes, I remember.
Katushas (sp) are hardly capable of delivering a nuclear warhead, no?
And yes, Iran supplies ied's and other nasty armaments to sympathetic constituancies in Iraq. Russia is not a factor, hence, Putin's "calling the bluff".

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Thanks Pgardn,
Yes, I remember.
Katushas (sp) are hardly capable of delivering a nuclear warhead, no?
And yes, Iran supplies ied's and other nasty armaments to sympathetic constituancies in Iraq. Russia is not a factor, hence, Putin's "calling the bluff".

The point is they (Iran) is ready and willing to cause all the problems they possibly can. And they clearly want conventional and nuclear capability upgrades. They are a problem. A big problem. And they clearly put people in office that will sacrifice the entire country. I have no doubt the madman in office now will play any card he has, at any cost.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by pgardn

The point is they (Iran) is ready and willing to cause all the problems they possibly can. And they clearly want conventional and nuclear capability upgrades. They are a problem. A big problem. And they clearly put people in office that will sacrifice the entire country. I have no doubt the madman in office now will play any card he has, at any cost.

I heard on the news today that Israel has floated an olive branch to Syria indicating they would move out of the Heights if Syria renounced ties with terrorism...didn't hear any details but a positive step??