Will Willie Travel?

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by phystech

But you don't use a big jug every month per horse, do you?. The numbers you showed us are based on monthly expenses for one horse, or at least that's how you portrayed it.

My vet bill numbers were higher in the months I had to buy Cosequin or a bottle of Clenbuterol, or for a bottle of bute. But I never bought one of each every month. And, actually, I never bought my Cosequin through my vet - I used to buy it off of Ebay and save $100.....

Do you have all of your monthly bills mailed directly to you or do you have them sent to the trainer and then you reimburse him/her?

if you buy the gallon jug of lubrisyn it is obviously the most economical....and I believe when I did the math for my own horses it came out to about $1.50 per day per horse...if that helps.

[The Bid]

Im just trying to put into perspective what it usually costs if you arent part of a group like this. To be honest Ive been shocked by some of the messages Ive seen here, even more shocking to me is how gracious Chuck has been. If I were footing the bill monthly and someone said...hey lets fly in Willie Martinez, I would tell them to go eat a shoe. If you fly a guy in its a Gomez, or Prado, someone like that. Only Buff Bradley flys Martinez around the world and I bet on more than one occasion he wishes the plane would have gotten stuck somewhere. Im not saying the guy is horrible, Im just saying if you are going to roll out 2k to fly in a jockey its not Chilly Willie Martinez

The other thing Im saying is hypothetically you Fly Willie in, thats an expense, whos going to foot the expense? You van Sumone up, which is 2k, whos going to foot the expense, you take a team up there with sumone, whos going to foot the expense. You dont just show up through a telewarp, there is real money involved when you send a horse 12 hrs from home

I wish you guys the best with the filly, Im glad everyone is having a goodtime and enjoying ownership. Im just surprised by some of the questions, and assumptions Ive seen. I have no interest in the filly, but the question about a billing statement, or earnings statement lead me to believe someone may be in the dark about how much it really costs to have a racehorse

One last thing, when you buy a horse at the price this filly was purchased 999 times out of 1000 you dont end up with a horse of this quality. A lot of guys spend 30 times what you spent and dont even get a race out of their horse, needless to say they have no residual either. The managment has put you in a spot with this horse where its nearly impossible to lose money unless you start flying jockeys around, and finding spots 12hrs from home.

[Unstable]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Im just trying to put into perspective what it usually costs if you arent part of a group like this. To be honest Ive been shocked by some of the messages Ive seen here, even more shocking to me is how gracious Chuck has been. If I were footing the bill monthly and someone said...hey lets fly in Willie Martinez, I would tell them to go eat a shoe. If you fly a guy in its a Gomez, or Prado, someone like that. Only Buff Bradley flys Martinez around the world and I bet on more than one occasion he wishes the plane would have gotten stuck somewhere. Im not saying the guy is horrible, Im just saying if you are going to roll out 2k to fly in a jockey its not Chilly Willie Martinez

The other thing Im saying is hypothetically you Fly Willie in, thats an expense, whos going to foot the expense? You van Sumone up, which is 2k, whos going to foot the expense, you take a team up there with sumone, whos going to foot the expense. You dont just show up through a telewarp, there is real money involved when you send a horse 12 hrs from home

I wish you guys the best with the filly, Im glad everyone is having a goodtime and enjoying ownership. Im just surprised by some of the questions, and assumptions Ive seen. I have no interest in the filly, but the question about a billing statement, or earnings statement lead me to believe someone may be in the dark about how much it really costs to have a racehorse

One last thing, when you buy a horse at the price this filly was purchased at 999 times out of 1000 you dont end up with a horse of this quality. A lot of guys spend 30 times what you spent and dont even get a race out of their horse, needless to say they have no residual either. The managment has put you in a spot with this horse where its nearly impossible to lose money unless you start flying jockeys around, and finding spots 12hrs from home.

The only reason we're talking about shipping to Monmouth is because Steve and Chuck mentioned that as a possibility.

Chuck seems to have been happy with the way Willie Martinez is riding Sumwon. So, of course, we are going to ask if he will be riding her if she does ship out of town.

Most of us in the partnership had no idea about the harsh realities of ownership. We're getting educated. Chuck and Steve have been gracious. For that, we are thankful.

There is no book on horse ownership etiquette (that I know of). If one of the partners is getting out of line, we have some people with more experience who can clue us in. For that, we are also thankful.

I know it would be easier for Chuck and Steve if we would all just "shut up and sit down." But that is not the nature of this partnership (thankful for that too). If we are truly annoying Chuck and Steve, they'll either let us know, or make changes in any future partnership agreement when this one dissolves at the end of the year.

So far, it's been a wonderful ride.

[Unstable]

BTW, thanks for all the info you have provided, Bid. It is appreciated.

[pmacdaddy]

Chuck and Steve are certainly the ones calling all the shots. So any comments we make are really just points for discussion.

Think a big part of what's going on is some education for many folks that have not been involved in ownership before. Been a great experience thus far and hope to lean more as we progress.

As long as stupid questions don't bother the bosses, don't see how discussing them can be a bad thing.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by pmacdaddy

Chuck and Steve are certainly the ones calling all the shots. So any comments we make are really just points for discussion.

Think a big part of what's going on is some education for many folks that have not been involved in ownership before. Been a great experience thus far and hope to lean more as we progress.

As long as stupid questions don't bother the bosses, don't see how discussing them can be a bad thing.

so funny, while you were posting, i was as well--similar thinking! whadya know

[ddthetide]

Originally Posted by pmacdaddy

Chuck and Steve are certainly the ones calling all the shots. So any comments we make are really just points for discussion.

Think a big part of what's going on is some education for many folks that have not been involved in ownership before. Been a great experience thus far and hope to lean more as we progress.

As long as stupid questions don't bother the bosses, don't see how discussing them can be a bad thing.

i had NO idea what kind of expenses were involved.
they're not stupid question, to those of us that DON'T know. i'm learning every step of the ride and the ride has been great fun so far.

[Riot]

I think when one goes back and reads through the original posts, where the concept of this partnership was first offered on this board, it's pretty clear what it was all about, and who would be risking the most: financially, professionally, etc.

Frankly, I figured that, with our budget, we'd get a (hopefully) serviceably sound claimer, that we would run a few times, all meet up at the track and see, have fun with, then lose back to the claim box, 60 days off, etc. Certainly that expectation is all I hoped for from the partnership.

The good point was made that to get a horse of Sumwonlovesyou's caliber is indeed not to be expected routinely, but I think everyone here does realize that this isn't the norm. Quite the austute move on Chuck's part, and we have been lucky that she's turned out better than we could have hoped for.

Sure, the harsh realities can hit home every time you go into the barn first thing in the morning and look in the stall, every time the horse takes a step on the track in training. Horses break, horses colic - nobody here is that ignorant of reality.

Yes, we've had a darn good ride so far, better than I know I expected - and that is what makes it all the MORE exciting for all of us!

The partners know we owe Steve and Chuck a huge debt for allowing us to have this fun - I'd guess both of them worry more about how "the partners" are doing, that we are having fun, even moreso than we worry that the venture they launched is successful for their sakes.

I've owned (non-race) horses most of my adult life, and I've made and lost money on them, and made and lost dreams and hopes on them. That's life with animals. You can be in it as a business (good luck with that - what happened to sport for sports sake, btw? ), but you don't last long, or gain much happiness from it, unless you love the sport, and the animals themselves for their own intrinsic worth.

So nothing is going to stop me from enjoying the pure exhilaration one feels when it's going right! And having 60 new friends to share it with just makes it a helluva lot more fun!

[satan's twin]

It is unrealistic for anyone other than the partners to absorb the expenses for this girl. To expect Chuck to eat additional expense for shipping one horse for a specific race is nuts. Each owner's expectation of a financial benefit that comes with "ownership" in this horse should be nothing more than the free hat they got if they came to watch the horse's last race. (As if he hasn't done enough already, I'm sure Byk got punched in the pants for the cost of the hats, also!) It would be wonderful if this horse could travel and compete at the next level. Unless she performs ridiculously well in her next race or unless the partners step forward to eat the travel expenses, Sumwon's next Summer Tour '07 performance should be at Churchill, if they write a race that fits for her, or Arlington (where she can be shipped to for free between these tracks.)

As far as shipping wee Willie to ride, FedEx has a "100 lb.weight restriction special" we may be able to get him on for $79.00, providing he stays real quiet in that big carton they have!

[Danzig]

i know that we all realize it costs a lot, or else most of us would be doing this on our own.
steve also knows that most of us are rank novices when it comes to this, and set this up so that many of us who may never get the opportunity to get further into ownership can have a small piece of a small pie.

as for the questions, comments, etc, what else would you expect from people who don't know? that's how we find out...it's also why it was set up from the get go with steve and chuck calling the shots, since they do know.
otherwise, we wouldn't have run in the first race yet, as we'd all still be arguing over silks patterns!

besides, like my dad says, stupid questions are the easiest to answer.

[jman5581]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Im just surprised by some of the questions, and assumptions Ive seen. I have no interest in the filly, but the question about a billing statement, or earnings statement lead me to believe someone may be in the dark about how much it really costs to have a racehorse

Hey, I've got an idea about how much it costs. Chuck told me it takes about $3k/month per horse, on average, once you account for everything. I have no reason to believe he was overstating that figure. I have spoken with other owners and I know it can be done cheaper at other tracks, but for what Chuck's rate is and at Churchill, $3k/month seems square.

I asked that question on the Dee Tee blog. I just wanted to see an income statement for the partnership i.e. what the in's and out's for the "partnership" account look like. I realize we don't pay for the bills. However, that doesn't mean we can't have an income statement for the partnership. There are various sundry things that the partnership pays out, that would show up on such a statement. It was more of a request for transparency in the partnership account so that everyone doesn't have a different idea of how much $$$ is in the account at any one point in time.

Just for clarification, I don't expect to see every dime Chuck pays out of pocket. He's incentivized under the partnership arrangment to spend as little as he can and still get a horse that can win into the race. And if he can do this, and if Sumwon can get checks, it might end up being a fairly profitable arrangement for him over the long run.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by jman5581

Hey, I've got an idea about how much it costs. Chuck told me it takes about $3k/month per horse, on average, once you account for everything. I have no reason to believe he was overstating that figure. I have spoken with other owners and I know it can be done cheaper at other tracks, but for what Chuck's rate is and at Churchill, $3k/month seems square.

I asked that question on the Dee Tee blog. I just wanted to see an income statement for the partnership i.e. what the in's and out's for the "partnership" account look like. I realize we don't pay for the bills. However, that doesn't mean we can't have an income statement for the partnership. There are various sundry things that the partnership pays out, that would show up on such a statement. It was more of a request for transparency in the partnership account so that everyone doesn't have a different idea of how much $$$ is in the account at any one point in time.

Just for clarification, I don't expect to see every dime Chuck pays out of pocket. He's incentivized under the partnership arrangment to spend as little as he can and still get a horse that can win into the race. And if he can do this, and if Sumwon can get checks, it might end up being a fairly profitable arrangement for him over the long run.

I believe she is well into the red. How long do you think horses can keep their form and continue to get checks? I think it was Charlie Whittingham that said, "Horses are like strawberries, they can go bad overnight."

As for the transparency stuff. The partnership clearly states that we are not in this to make money. Do you just want to see what a bill looks like?

We are fortunate to have it turn out so well even if we haven't got our win photo(s)

[Danzig]

anyone who got in the stable for money is in the wrong place. i'd like to see chuck make his money back for his daily expenses...other than that--when's the next purchase?? i'm in (as long as tony gets back to work soon!).

[3kings]

Wingnut,
I can't speak for Jman but I believe he just wants to know where we stand. How many people are involved, what was the total money invested, is there enough to do what is best for the horse, should we try to get a few extra dollars together to maximize Sumwons ability to run in the best spot for her. Certainly everyone appreciates what Chuck and Steve have done for the group, people just want to help. Its not about making money it is about enjoying the ride as much as possibe. I have already received enough enjoyment out of the last six months to feel my investment(amusement dollar) is more than worth while, and I believe this is the prevailing feeling. Many people don't completely understand the day to day expeditures, cost of shipping, jockey costs, entry and nomination fees etc... We are here to learn and enjoy the great sport at an entry level.

Tom

[The Bid]

I didnt mean to come off nasty. As an outsider looking in on this situation I realize how lucky you all are. Not only lucky to have a filly of this magnitude, but lucky to have good people coaching you along. So many WOULDBE good owners get burned the first time they step in to this game that they never try again. Youve all had a great first experience, exceptional. Your filly is nice, the people involved seem to be nice, and unless people start to make suggestions and get difficult it will be impossible to lose money. There aernt many situations I can think of where its impossible to lose money in this game, you guys are in one

[jman5581]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Your filly is nice, the people involved seem to be nice, and unless people start to make suggestions and get difficult it will be impossible to lose money. There aernt many situations I can think of where its impossible to lose money in this game, you guys are in one

I don't follow...

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by The Bid

I didnt mean to come off nasty. As an outsider looking in on this situation I realize how lucky you all are. Not only lucky to have a filly of this magnitude, but lucky to have good people coaching you along. So many WOULDBE good owners get burned the first time they step in to this game that they never try again. Youve all had a great first experience, exceptional. Your filly is nice, the people involved seem to be nice, and unless people start to make suggestions and get difficult it will be impossible to lose money. There aernt many situations I can think of where its impossible to lose money in this game, you guys are in one

Which is why I hope that someone who is in the position to buy their own horses sees what good Chuck can do and hopefully places their horses with him too.

Does each track, say Magna, Churchill and NYRA, all have their own fees for trainers to have stalls?

[Unstable]

Originally Posted by The Bid

I didnt mean to come off nasty.

I know that. I just had the feeling that you were a little exasperated with some of our foolish questions and unrealistic suppositions. You sound like you have more experience with horse ownership than most of the partners. We're getting that experience. Right now, thanks to Chuck and Steve, it's been a great experience. Hopefully, it stays that way.

Originally Posted by The Bid

As an outsider looking in on this situation I realize how lucky you all are. Not only lucky to have a filly of this magnitude, but lucky to have good people coaching you along. So many WOULDBE good owners get burned the first time they step in to this game that they never try again. Youve all had a great first experience, exceptional. Your filly is nice, the people involved seem to be nice, and unless people start to make suggestions and get difficult it will be impossible to lose money. There aernt many situations I can think of where its impossible to lose money in this game, you guys are in one

After our initial financial outlay, there is no possibility of a further loss. That's why most of us jumped in. I personally think that I have got an incredible return on my investment already, again thanks to Chuck and Steve.

Hey, if the 2nd partnership involving a NY-bred gets put together, why don't you join in? You could help keep us in line, and have a great time along the way.

[jman5581]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

As for the transparency stuff. The partnership clearly states that we are not in this to make money. Do you just want to see what a bill looks like?

You're clearly misconstruing what I've said. I never said I was in it to make money. It's really just what 3kings has said. Nothing more, nothing less.