North Korea

[Independent George]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Crazy guy.
Gdubb seems real eager to "negotiate" with him, spent the AM talking with the other five interests.
So why not move militarily like was done with another "Axis of Evil"?
Simple answer...Kim Il has "nukular" weapons. Maybe not delivery systems ...
yet. He'll share what he has with other enemies of the USA...
Now, that's plenty scary, imo.

Yeh ,I'm sure GW is skeert of North Korea, In fact ,it's probably his fault NK HAS theses "nukular" weapons, right? Of course it was Willie the Worm who gave NK the needed materials and resarch to produce the nukes in his ever-increasing effort to have everyone on the planet like us.
China is using NK as its pawn to draw closer to the US.China hates us but needs us a trade partner and consumer of its goods.
Kim Jung Il is a nutcase but he's pragmatic enough to like his Mercedes and Swedish super-models not to want to be obliterated, unlike nutcases of the Isalmic radical ilk ,who welcome death and destruction as the quick path to eternal life with Allah and the virgins.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Independent George

Yeh ,I'm sure GW is skeert of North Korea, In fact ,it's probably his fault NK HAS theses "nukular" weapons, right? Of course it was Willie the Worm who gave NK the needed materials and resarch to produce the nukes in his ever-increasing effort to have everyone on the planet like us.
China is using NK as its pawn to draw closer to the US.China hates us but needs us a trade partner and consumer of its goods.
Kim Jung Il is a nutcase but he's pragmatic enough to like his Mercedes and Swedish super-models not to want to be obliterated, unlike nutcases of the Isalmic radical ilk ,who welcome death and destruction as the quick path to eternal life with Allah and the virgins.

Huh?
I'd like to see your source that "Willie the Worm" gave NK the needed materials and research to produce nukes.
Please back that absurdity with facts and a source.

[Independent George]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Huh?
I'd like to see your source that "Willie the Worm" gave NK the needed materials and research to produce nukes.
Please back that absurdity with facts and a source.

You want my source !! I could tell you but then I'd have to have you terminated.
Facts....you mean like the ones you throw around ? No thanks.I ran out of bulls**t the first time the police questioned me after defending my best bud when some people were going to use him for tee-ball practice.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Independent George

You want my source !! I could tell you but then I'd have to have you terminated.
Facts....you mean like the ones you throw around ? No thanks.I ran out of bulls**t the first time the police questioned me after defending my best bud when some people were going to use him for tee-ball practice.

I thought so, your words proved it.
You would have me terminated? LOL!!!!!!

In my beloved USA, we have freedom of speech without BS threats of silencing.

Back to your cave Indep Geo.

Back to the original topic:

President Bush said today that he believes the nation's nascent missile defense system would have had a "reasonable chance" of shooting down a long-range missile launched by North Korea had it come close to the United States

This is the prompt to kick Russian and China in the butt. A little more money and work put into this, and it works. This makes em shudder.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Back to the original topic:

President Bush said today that he believes the nation's nascent missile defense system would have had a "reasonable chance" of shooting down a long-range missile launched by North Korea had it come close to the United States

This is the prompt to kick Russian and China in the butt. A little more money and work put into this, and it works. This makes em shudder.

Wish I could agree Pat.
Testing so far is five out of ten...when we knew where they'd be coming from, and when they were launched.
We still have a ways to go with development. The Chinese and the Russians know this as well. 50% isn't good enough.

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Wish I could agree Pat.
Testing so far is five out of ten...when we knew where they'd be coming from, and when they were launched.
We still have a ways to go with development. The Chinese and the Russians know this as well. 50% isn't good enough.

Very true. But we CAN get it right and they know it. I guarantee you China and Russia DO NOT want us working on this system at all. It is a big bargaining chip and Bush is pushing it in.

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Huh?
I'd like to see your source that "Willie the Worm" gave NK the needed materials and research to produce nukes.
Please back that absurdity with facts and a source.

Try this ...

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...7/164846.shtml

But Indy George had one thing wrong ... the Sink Emperor didn't give away our technology because he wanted to be liked ...

... he did it for a much more practical reason ... cold, hard cash for his and his consort's campaigns and enrichment. Same as he did with advanced missle technology to China.

Edit: Here's another one ... http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Rea...le.asp?ID=5368

Second Edit: Here's what it says in the left-wing Wikipedia (emphasis added) ...

"In 1994, Clinton negotiated and signed the Nuclear Accords with North Korea. The underlying concern was that North Korea was developing nuclear weapons technology under the guise of a nuclear power plant. In exchange for assistance with energy needs, North Korea agreed to abandon all ambitions for acquiring nuclear weapons. However, by the mid 1990s defectors from North Korea, along with reports from the IAEA, indicated that North Korea was violating both the Nuclear Accords and the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty."

"In exchange for assistance with energy needs" means Clinton gave away nuclear technology secrets in exchange for a promise ... which was broken before the ink was dry.

Third Edit: Here's the best one yet ... from the colossal fool Jimmuh Carter's own website ... in which he brags about his role in getting North Korea's "assurances" that the nuclear technology they've just been given (1994) will not be used to develop nuclear weapons ... http://www.cartercenter.org/doc221.htm

Need any more sources? You surely believe Jimmuh "Ah will nevuh lah to yoo" Carter, don't you?

For those of you who don't have time to read all the articles I cited above documenting ... as requested ...the nuclear giveaways of the Clinton "administration" ... here's an excerpt from one of them ...

"Under the final terms of the Agreed Framework approved in October of 1994, Clinton agreed to provide the 'Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea' (DPRK) with two light water nuclear reactors and a massive allotment of oil. The U.S. agreed to ship 500,000 metric tons of oil annually in response to the North's pretense that the energy-starved backwater had developed the nuclear facility to generate power. These shipments have cost taxpayers more than $800 million to date - a bargain compared with the $6 billion spent on constructing the nuclear reactors, which now empower North Korea to produce 100 nuclear bombs each year.

All these measures failed to quell the North's atom-lust.

In August 1998, North Korea lobbed a Taepo Dong 1 missile over Japan. Four months later, officials refused U.S. inspectors access to a suspected underground nuclear reactor at Kumchang-ni. President Clinton then sweetened the deal by rewarding Kim Jong Il's half-year-long stall tactics with 1.1 million tons of food worth nearly $200 million. Not surprisingly, American inspectors found no signs of wrongdoing at the long-sanitized facility.

Even this seemingly humanitarian food aid turned into a weapon in North Korea's hands. Reports abound that rations have been re-directed to the DPRK's military, the fifth largest in the world. This is nothing new. Using food as a weapon dates back at least to Stalin. Communist Ethiopia similarly misused international aid in the 1980s. With this in mind, Rep. Benjamin Gilman, R-NY, warned in 1999, '(A)ny food aid we provide to North Korea . . . must be monitored to prevent diversion to the military and the party cadre. Unscheduled, unsupervised visits by American Korean-speaking monitors would assist us in this regard.' It didn't happen.

It seems little wonder North Korea has made threats of nuclear conflagration its only functional export industry, besides the weapons themselves. Even as floods and famine emaciated its nearly 22 million citizens, regime leaders in this 'worker's paradise' earmarked every available dollar for guns, not butter, in the hope that Uncle Sam would pay their price without demanding accountable disarmament. Their gamble paid off. Clinton's appeasement programs made North Korea the leading recipient of foreign aid in the Asia-Pacific region.

Clinton's policy toward North Korea, a queer amalgamation of Clement Atlee and Alfred E. Newman, has proven disastrous. The most isolated nation in the world has possessed a nuclear weapon capable of striking the United States (the Taepo Dong 2 missile) since at least 1999. Its modern-day commissars have threatened to use these missiles against America a minimum of three times in 21 months. After kicking UN inspectors out of the Yongbyong facility, the short trip to full nuclear status has been quickly engaged."

End of excerpt.

[Downthestretch55]

Bold B,
Did you read the articles you cited?
The first one states this:

"Pakistan also benefited from the trade in weaponry. The missiles-for-nukes trade gave Pakistan an operational means to deliver its atomic bombs.

Pakistan has since successfully test-fired and deployed its own version of the No Dong missile, called the Ghauri. The North Korean-designed missile has a range of nearly 900 miles and can cover virtually all of India, Pakistan's rival in Southwest Asia.

The ultimate irony here is that the North Korean No Dong and Tae Po Dong missiles are based on technology given to Pyongyang by China. In 1994, the Wall Street Journal revealed that Chinese-made CSS-2 missile technology had found its way into North Korean hands."

Last time I looked in my history book, Clinton never was the President of Pakistan nor China. In my recent memory, GW Bush has been the only US president to visit Pakistan.

Regarding former president Carter, I really don't see a problem with his attempt to find a peaceful outcome 14 years ago. Yes, 14 years ago.
Now I'm certain that you'll go to your rightwing sites and find other "facts" to connect current events to their "real root causes". I'm sure there's a connect with Woodrow Wilson at one of them, if you look hard enough.
Or, was it F D Roosevelt that created these events?

[Downthestretch55]

Bold B,
I've read all three of the articles you cited.
Now, read one that I put up:

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0708-21.htm

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Bold B,
I've read all three of the articles you cited.
Now, read one that I put up:

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0708-21.htm

I managed to struggle through it ... and there's really no "there" there.

No U.S. president is going to publicly reveal what our actual military or intelligence capabilites are. The writer of this article ... and the reporters at that press conference ... certainly don't know what they are.

The leftists scoffed at President Reagan ... The Destroyer of the Beloved Soviet Union ... when he first proposed a missle defense system. Now it turns out that such a system is exactly what we need in this age of rogue tinpots with potential nuclear and long-range missle capabilites.

Whether the system is currently effective or not ... and none of us civilians knows that ... it can surely be made effective by good old American know-how and ingenuity.

Would you prefer that we didn't have a missile defense system?

And please tell us what you got from this article ... to me there was not a blessed thing there.

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Bold B,
Did you read the articles you cited?
The first one states this:

"Pakistan also benefited from the trade in weaponry. The missiles-for-nukes trade gave Pakistan an operational means to deliver its atomic bombs.

Pakistan has since successfully test-fired and deployed its own version of the No Dong missile, called the Ghauri. The North Korean-designed missile has a range of nearly 900 miles and can cover virtually all of India, Pakistan's rival in Southwest Asia.

The ultimate irony here is that the North Korean No Dong and Tae Po Dong missiles are based on technology given to Pyongyang by China. In 1994, the Wall Street Journal revealed that Chinese-made CSS-2 missile technology had found its way into North Korean hands."

Last time I looked in my history book, Clinton never was the President of Pakistan nor China. In my recent memory, GW Bush has been the only US president to visit Pakistan.

Regarding former president Carter, I really don't see a problem with his attempt to find a peaceful outcome 14 years ago. Yes, 14 years ago.
Now I'm certain that you'll go to your rightwing sites and find other "facts" to connect current events to their "real root causes". I'm sure there's a connect with Woodrow Wilson at one of them, if you look hard enough.
Or, was it F D Roosevelt that created these events?

You're mixing your apples and your oranges.

Clinton didn't give away missile technology to North Korea ... he gave away nuclear technology to them.

The missile technology was given away to China ... in return for campaign contributions. You remember all those Chinese arms dealers who practically moved into the White House ... don't you? And the Chicoms passed it along to the Paks and North Koreans.

That's pretty clear now ... isn't it?

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Regarding former president Carter, I really don't see a problem with his attempt to find a peaceful outcome 14 years ago. Yes, 14 years ago.

Jimmuh was a boob 14 years ago ... 14 days ago ... and 14 minutes ago.

Everyone wants to "find a peaceful outcome" ... but Jimmuh stinks at it. Please don't waste your time trying to defend this utter embarrassment.

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

Must be fate. I just ran accross this post while skiming the thread.

Jimmy Carter was NOT an "utter embarassment". He WAS the most antisemetic, incompetent and DANGEROUS man that ever inhabited the White House.

His wife, sister and the rest of the gang were about 3 to 4 steps away from opening up the famous "relocation camps" of the 30's and 40's in Europe.

His brother was a true intellectual genious as his mother, who was a card carrying member of the KKK.

Yeah ... all of that too

And you left out Amy ... a "nucular" expert and political confidant when she was only nine years old.

But Billy was OK ... anyone who relieves himself by peeing off the roof of the White House ... can't be all that bad.

That was the least embarrassing thing this family ever did.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Independent George

Yeh ,I'm sure GW is skeert of North Korea, In fact ,it's probably his fault NK HAS theses "nukular" weapons, right? Of course it was Willie the Worm who gave NK the needed materials and resarch to produce the nukes in his ever-increasing effort to have everyone on the planet like us.
China is using NK as its pawn to draw closer to the US.China hates us but needs us a trade partner and consumer of its goods.
Kim Jung Il is a nutcase but he's pragmatic enough to like his Mercedes and Swedish super-models not to want to be obliterated, unlike nutcases of the Isalmic radical ilk ,who welcome death and destruction as the quick path to eternal life with Allah and the virgins.

Again, the thread gets reduced to political name-calling; there is plenty of blame on both sides of the American political spectrum for the mess we face today throughout the world...better to concentrate on how to survive it! North Korea is untouchable to the US unless we plan on wiping out China also...something we could do but hopefully isn't a viable consideration. Iran, I honestly believe is "pissing into the wind" when it tries to scare the likes of Israel...we will probably wake up some morning to the news that the folks from Israel had enough and half of Iran is gone, the other half radioactive. I agree that the Iranian situation may become the most problematic over time, but right now...we should allow China to negotiate with North Korea, if that fails...I agree with Pgardn, some sabre rattling (or in this case, anti-missile system development talk) should spur even the nut job in NK to start considering how he'd attract models as a pile of glowing dust.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Again, the thread gets reduced to political name-calling; there is plenty of blame on both sides of the American political spectrum for the mess we face today throughout the world...better to concentrate on how to survive it! North Korea is untouchable to the US unless we plan on wiping out China also...something we could do but hopefully isn't a viable consideration. Iran, I honestly believe is "pissing into the wind" when it tries to scare the likes of Israel...we will probably wake up some morning to the news that the folks from Israel had enough and half of Iran is gone, the other half radioactive. I agree that the Iranian situation may become the most problematic over time, but right now...we should allow China to negotiate with North Korea, if that fails...I agree with Pgardn, some sabre rattling (or in this case, anti-missile system development talk) should spur even the nut job in NK to start considering how he'd attract models as a pile of glowing dust.

Somer,
I agree with much of your statements.
As far as anti-missile systems, yes, we have some but not as well refined as may need to be. I also agree with Pgardn that if any country can develop the requisite technology, the USA can, with time for further development.
So, I'll go back to my assertion that China will play a huge role in helping to resolve the NK issue, and if they do, they will gain great credibility in the world's community opinion, as the US's has diminished.
It's completely in their interests if they do so.
DTS