Street Sense to skip Belmont

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Winning two-thirds of the Triple Crown would put significant distance between Street Sense and Curlin.

Let's say the Curlin wins the Belmont over a field that doesn't include Street Sense. Then he hits the sidelines for a break. Then let's say that Street Sense wins the Haskell and then they face each other in the Travers. The winner of the Travers would then be the leader of the division. Curlin winning the Belmont will only have him in the lead if he is to beat Street Sense again. If Curlin wins the Belmont and Street Sense beats him later for a 2-1 advantage heads up, how could Curlin have the lead?

[King Glorious]

Let me get this straight. U are saying Street Sense could have a 2-1 edge over Curlin in head to heads but Curlin would still win the title because he won a race Street Sense wasn't even in?

[saratoga guy]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Let me get this straight. U are saying Street Sense could have a 2-1 edge over Curlin in head to heads but Curlin would still win the title because he won a race Street Sense wasn't even in?

See: Funny Cide/Empire Maker.

Empire Maker, 2-1 edge over Funny Cide.

Funny Cide 2/3 of Triple Crown... and the Eclipse.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by saratoga guy

See: Funny Cide/Empire Maker.

Empire Maker, 2-1 edge over Funny Cide.

Funny Cide 2/3 of Triple Crown... and the Eclipse.

The difference here is that Funny Cide won the biggest of the races. Curlin doesn't have that same advantage. If Curlin had won the Derby and Street Sense had won the Preakness.......then Curlin comes back to win the Belmont (minus SS) and SS beats Curlin in the Travers for a 2-1 edge, I think Curlin would get it. But in the scenario I first gave, not only would SS hold the 2-1 egge head to head but he would also have won the biggest of the races. That's what makes it different than FC/Empire Maker although that was a close example.

[Danzig]

so, since no tc is on the line, should they just cancel? how ridiculous that it only makes sense to run if the tc is on the line. why would anyone other than the derby winner run in the preakness or belmont? just have two walkovers and put the pretender in the record books. whoopie, tc winner #12.

and good question about why they worked him! i don't think this was done in the best interest of the horse, but in the best interests of the horses next career. they didn't see enough to think he could handle 12f and the competition, so sit out...

wow, a seven race career at four. makes bernardini look like old school in comparison.
where's mineshaft when you need him? or medaglia d'oro?!

someone wrote that street sense was all out in the preakness (think in another thread) and that he may need a break--he was not all out, and would have won the thing had he not decided to loaf at the end..

[boswd]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Danzig, you know you're one of my favorites but I think you are way off here. You are acting as if the horse just retired healthy. He's planning a summer/fall campaign, with a start in the BC. Horses are different, Nafzger is an old school guy and thought it was in his best interest to sit it out and wait for a prep for the Travers. I don't see the big deal.

And these old schoolers remember the days prior to BC when the Travers was almost as and just as prestigous of a race to win.

The Breeders Cup has changed and IMHO ruining the sport.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Danzig, you know you're one of my favorites but I think you are way off here. You are acting as if the horse just retired healthy. He's planning a summer/fall campaign, with a start in the BC. Horses are different, Nafzger is an old school guy and thought it was in his best interest to sit it out and wait for a prep for the Travers. I don't see the big deal.

that was my first post on the subject, typed as soon as i saw the news. chalk it up to disappointment.
i'm still disappointed...not surprised, but disappointed.
just don't think their fall campaign will be much, a race or two and the bcc. i'm not thrilled with a horse running probably three more times ever.

oh hell...
and thanks for saying i'm one of your faves! you're one of mine as well....but of course no guarantee we'll always agree.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm hoping we see him next year. To my knowledge they haven't made any plans for him to stand anywhere, although I might have missed it. Anyone know?

i'd like to see all the big guys come back....but so often anymore it doesn't happen.
no doubt all of the major players are putting out feelers tho.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm hoping we see him next year. To my knowledge they haven't made any plans for him to stand anywhere, although I might have missed it. Anyone know?

this sure doesn't sound promising:


“Knowing the offers that are coming in on this horse, which I don’t know the details of, but I know it’s getting economically impossible to run,” he said. “But I also know Mr. Tafel. He’s a sportsman and he wants to win.”

[Danzig]

from drf:

Nafzger said Street Sense would instead have two major objectives the rest of the year, the Travers Stakes Aug. 25 at Saratoga, and the Breeders' Cup Classic Oct. 27 at Monmouth Park. No horse has ever won the Breeders' Cup Juvenile, Derby, Travers, and Classic, a superfecta Nafzger said "would be history."

Had Street Sense run in the Belmont, that too would have been history. Curlin, who won the Preakness after finishing third in the Derby, and Hard Spun, who was second in the Derby and third in the Preakness, both are heading to Belmont Park for the 1 1/2-mile race. Had all three run, it would have been the first time the same three horses took the first three spots in the Derby and Preakness and then competed in the Belmont.

and like another trainer said (several were surprised at the announcement) there are only three classics...much as some like to refer to the travers as the 'fourth' there are only three.

i know the preakness gets a bad rap, especially because of the state of pimlico--but it's played a significant role the last couple years in year-end voting. if this trend continues, it's the belmont that will be on life support, not the preakness.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cardus

The biggest "sport" of this year's Triple Crown is Larry Jones.

I'd actually cast my vote for the impossible to root for Steve Asmussen.

IMO, Larry Jones wasn't being a "straight-shooter" with some of the things he'd said after the Southwest Stakes with Hard Spun. I realize he trains for an owner who seems like a pest, and he's not a "big name" trainer---but, that wasn't straight-talk coming out of LJ's mouth. He may have "cowboy" as his nickname...and may try to act like he's not the sharpest tool in the shed...but I've heard other quotes from him that suggest to me that he has a racing IQ above the average trainer.

To Asmussen's credit....he's stayed the course with Curlin. He didn't go out of his way to make a case that his horse ran as well as Street Sense in the Derby inspite of the 8 length margin of defeat---and believe me, it wouldn't have been hard to make that case. And, he was also the only trainer who took the heat and allowed HBO's Real Sports to interview him in the story they did about top trainers and their bad tests.

While Nafzger may not win any awards for "best sport" --- I'm sure he's doing only what he believes is right by the horse...and how much can you really fault him for that?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I'd actually cast my vote for the impossible to root for Steve Asmussen.

IMO, Larry Jones wasn't being a "straight-shooter" with some of the things he'd said after the Southwest Stakes with Hard Spun. I realize he trains for an owner who seems like a pest, and he's not a "big name" trainer---but, that wasn't straight-talk coming out of LJ's mouth. He may have "cowboy" as his nickname...and may try to act like he's not the sharpest tool in the shed...but I've heard other quotes from him that suggest to me that he has a racing IQ above the average trainer.

To Asmussen's credit....he's stayed the course with Curlin. He didn't go out of his way to make a case that his horse ran as well as Street Sense in the Derby inspite of the 8 length margin of defeat---and believe me, it wouldn't have been hard to make that case. And, he was also the only trainer who took the heat and allowed HBO's Real Sports to interview him in the story they did about top trainers and their bad tests.

While Nafzger may not win any awards for "best sport" --- I'm sure he's doing only what he believes is right by the horse...and how much can you really fault him for that?

Good post, I agree with you.
The moment that Curlin crossed the wire first in the Preakness I assumed that Street Sense would not run in the Belmont. Without a TC on the line, sporting or not it just doesn't seem like a race that you just have to attend at all costs.

[ARyan]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I'd actually cast my vote for the impossible to root for Steve Asmussen.

IMO, Larry Jones wasn't being a "straight-shooter" with some of the things he'd said after the Southwest Stakes with Hard Spun. I realize he trains for an owner who seems like a pest, and he's not a "big name" trainer---but, that wasn't straight-talk coming out of LJ's mouth. He may have "cowboy" as his nickname...and may try to act like he's not the sharpest tool in the shed...but I've heard other quotes from him that suggest to me that he has a racing IQ above the average trainer.

To Asmussen's credit....he's stayed the course with Curlin. He didn't go out of his way to make a case that his horse ran as well as Street Sense in the Derby inspite of the 8 length margin of defeat---and believe me, it wouldn't have been hard to make that case. And, he was also the only trainer who took the heat and allowed HBO's Real Sports to interview him in the story they did about top trainers and their bad tests.
While Nafzger may not win any awards for "best sport" --- I'm sure he's doing only what he believes is right by the horse...and how much can you really fault him for that?

Take the heat!!! By not answering for anything!!

HBO: "How do you explain these test results?"
Assmussen: "I don't explain them."
HBO: "What do you mean you don't explain them?"
Assmussen: "Do you know how successful I am? Don't you think people are out to see me fail?"

Wow! What a great defense! He is simply so logical in his statements!

I can't stand him...

I feel bad for the horse. I think he is a great horse, but the fact he is in Assmussen's care sickens me.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by ARyan

Take the heat!!! By not answering for anything!!

HBO: "How do you explain these test results?"
Assmussen: "I don't explain them."
HBO: "What do you mean you don't explain them?"
Assmussen: "Do you know how successful I am? Don't you think people are out to see me fail?"

Wow! What a great defense! He is simply so logical in his statements!

I can't stand him...

I feel bad for the horse. I think he is a great horse, but the fact he is in Assmussen's care sickens me.

He had a point, though. . . Why would he use 750 times the legal limit of a substance that's easily detectable?

[ARyan]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

He had a point, though. . . Why would he use 750 times the legal limit of a substance that's easily detectable?

Why?

Maybe because he uses these types of drugs on many of his horses, and someone got sloppy. Who knows the truth, but the fact is he has been suspended multiple times, and does use these types of drugs on his horses.

He has no point, he is a liar, and a cheat. I hope someday, when he is caught again, he has his license revoked in every state.

I hope PA sets an example with Vaders and other states follow PA's lead.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

He had a point, though. . . Why would he use 750 times the legal limit of a substance that's easily detectable?

Maybe because he has got away with it for a long time and the labs finally were testing for it? The defense is the oldest trick in the book. The "I'm not possibly that dumb to do that" trick?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

He had a point, though. . . Why would he use 750 times the legal limit of a substance that's easily detectable?

which of the 22 times are you referring to?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

And, he was also the only trainer who took the heat and allowed HBO's Real Sports to interview him in the story they did about top trainers and their bad tests.

Actually he had no idea what they were going to ask him. They told him it was going to be about Curlin.

[Cannon Shell]

I understand that most of the year turf writers have little to write about that anyone outside of diehards and people like us care about. I also understand that Street Sense being in the Belmont would make it a more interesting race. But the degree to which these guys are howling about this horse not running is stupid. It is one race in a 365 day schedule. Sure it is a classic but the problems of horse racing have almost nothing to do with the Triple Crown. The people who wont watch the Belmont because SS isn't in it aren't real fans anyway and probably wont be regardless of what happens. The people who support the game will be betting it despite his absense.

The guy made a choice to pass a demanding race with decreased relevance in the modern thoroughbred world. His horse may be lightly raced in the minds of some but the races are all tightly bunched and this would be his 4th race in 8 weeks. Which may not be a demanding schedule for a horse of past times but it is now. He doesn't wear front bandages because Carl has an endorsement deal with Vetwrap.

As a trainer I understand why he is doing this. And I think it is the right thing to do. I'm quite confident that his instincts are telling him to pass more than some possible stallion deal. As for the hysterical prophets of doom, What do you think they would have said if Frank Whitely would have passed on the match race?

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I understand that most of the year turf writers have little to write about that anyone outside of diehards and people like us care about. I also understand that Street Sense being in the Belmont would make it a more interesting race. But the degree to which these guys are howling about this horse not running is stupid. It is one race in a 365 day schedule. Sure it is a classic but the problems of horse racing have almost nothing to do with the Triple Crown. The people who wont watch the Belmont because SS isn't in it aren't real fans anyway and probably wont be regardless of what happens. The people who support the game will be betting it despite his absense.

The guy made a choice to pass a demanding race with decreased relevance in the modern thoroughbred world. His horse may be lightly raced in the minds of some but the races are all tightly bunched and this would be his 4th race in 8 weeks. Which may not be a demanding schedule for a horse of past times but it is now. He doesn't wear front bandages because Carl has an endorsement deal with Vetwrap.

As a trainer I understand why he is doing this. And I think it is the right thing to do. I'm quite confident that his instincts are telling him to pass more than some possible stallion deal. As for the hysterical prophets of doom, What do you think they would have said if Frank Whitely would have passed on the match race?

Excellent Points Chuck......By the way, Phonsie and the boys are in the B-Finals on Saturday...Good Luck Spa Catholic!!