Va Derby

Originally Posted by boldruler

He will definitely race next year, unless he got hurt. The BC Mile is still an option I guess but I made the stupid comment that he should be a turf miler because he ran well at one mile on the dirt and my friend laughed at me and said that means nothing.

I think your freind is highly irrational then....If Showing Up makes it to the BC I really think the Mile would be his best opportunity - that is unless the Classic division thins out a little between now and then....I don't think he'll Turf 1 1/2-miles and beat the Euros and I don't think he can beat Flower Alley and Bernardini, etc. going 1 1/4-miles on the dirt - although I wouldn't blame them for trying this...he is a good animal....

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I think your freind is highly irrational then....If Showing Up makes it to the BC I really think the Mile would be his best opportunity - that is unless the Classic division thins out a little between now and then....I don't think he'll Turf 1 1/2-miles and beat the Euros and I don't think he can beat Flower Alley and Bernardini, etc. going 1 1/4-miles on the dirt - although I wouldn't blame them for trying this...he is a good animal....

No more dirt for him. He really couldn't ever beat the top 3yr olds or older horses on the surface anyway. He is a nice 100 beyer type of horse on dirt. On grass they swear he is the next superstar.

Originally Posted by boldruler

No more dirt for him. He really couldn't ever beat the top 3yr olds or older horses on the surface anyway. He is a nice 100 beyer type of horse on dirt. On grass they swear he is the next superstar.

We'll see....but I still think they swap back at some point...they'd be close-minded not to try.....Plus, his stud value may really depend on it if he wants to stand in this country....seriously....nobody wants to breed to a Turf horse in North America...they just don't...

[blackthroatedwind]

I won't be surprised to see him in the Met Mile either. I think the evidence is FAR from conclusive that he's a better turf horse than dirt horse and as Joel has pointed out there is little interest in breeding to turf horses in the US and for reasonably good reason.

A lot of decisions about this horse's future seem to be being made based on one race. I'm not so sure the best race he ever ran wasn't his debut. And, running 6th in the Derby, on two weeks rest with little bottom, wasn't too shabby either.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I won't be surprised to see him in the Met Mile either. I think the evidence is FAR from conclusive that he's a better turf horse than dirt horse and as Joel has pointed out there is little interest in breeding to turf horses in the US and for reasonably good reason.

A lot of decisions about this horse's future seem to be being made based on one race. I'm not so sure the best race he ever ran wasn't his debut. And, running 6th in the Derby, on two weeks rest with little bottom, wasn't too shabby either.

I would love to see him back on the dirt, but Tagg isn't making his opinion up on just one race. These are his words "I just never thought he looked real comfortable on the dirt even though he was very impressive on it in several of his races," Tagg said of the colt. "One day we jogged him off on the turf and he just looked like he was reborn."

Tagg wasn't the only one who thought this, some guys who really know the business saw the same thing. I believe a few large offers were made on the horse, but I have no idea if that is really the case.

[SentToStud]

Really now. He's obviously very nice but it's pretty senseless to proclaim him a star until he meets and beats other nice horses in a race where they're all well meant. The Colonial Cup was not such a race. He ran great but after all he did have the trip of a lifetime from a favorable post and never really had to run for position or make room for his run. Let's see how he does in the Seretariat on a bit tighter course where he'll be meeting other colts who have been pointed for the race and where he'll not likely have as smooth a trip. If he wins big there, I'll be the first to proclaim him special.

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Really now. He's obviously very nice but it's pretty senseless to proclaim him a star until he meets and beats other nice horses in a race where they're all well meant. The Colonial Cup was not such a race. He ran great but after all he did have the trip of a lifetime from a favorable post and never really had to run for position or make room for his run. Let's see how he does in the Seretariat on a bit tighter course where he'll be meeting other colts who have been pointed for the race and where he'll not likely have as smooth a trip. If he wins big there, I'll be the first to proclaim him special.

They are skipping a pretty easy million dollar spot to target the Secretariat, so they must think they have something there.

[blackthroatedwind]

Well, Tagg knows much better than me.

Not that I am a big believer in Beyer figs on the grass ( or any figs on the grass for that matter ) but he did get a 102 in Virginia. That's pretty good and barely puts him behind these supposed monster older horses running.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Well, Tagg knows much better than me.

Not that I am a big believer in Beyer figs on the grass ( or any figs on the grass for that matter ) but he did get a 102 in Virginia. That's pretty good and barely puts him behind these supposed monster older horses running.

Beyers on the turf are useless. Honestly I am not sure why, but I have been told this repeatedly by people. A few guys hate beyers all together. I like them because they are easy to figure out, but I am not a guy who bets real money except 2-3x a year.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

We'll see....but I still think they swap back at some point...they'd be close-minded not to try.....Plus, his stud value may really depend on it if he wants to stand in this country....seriously....nobody wants to breed to a Turf horse in North America...they just don't...

I think Tagg just feels he is a much better horse on the turf. I know they wanted to go back to the dirt but it sounds like they gave up on that. Who knows though after a beating by some europeans on the turf he might change his mind. They have to be looking at the poor crop of 3yr old turf horses though and wondering how any of them could ever beat him.