Rasheed Wallace

[Mortimer]

No, you're wrong. It is inconsistent to put all the blame on him for the bad things and all the credit to the players to the good things. It is wrong and poor debating strategy...you can't win doing that. You are just making things worse. I could just as easily say...what on earth is the best player in the NBA doing it ruining Brown's tremendous coaching in the 1st half by going 0 for 6 in the 3rd quarter?? That argument is the same as yours and just as ridiculous. How on earth can you say it's all the players in the 4th but all Brown in the 3rd?? There is simply no comibination of the two at any point??
-----------------


SportyFans.






This is the same guy that credited James and soley James for the Cleveland Cavs turn around from that 15-67 season.











I mean let's call a hypocrite a MainCourse fer cripes sakes.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by mortimerdexterfoxworthy

No, you're wrong. It is inconsistent to put all the blame on him for the bad things and all the credit to the players to the good things. It is wrong and poor debating strategy...you can't win doing that. You are just making things worse. I could just as easily say...what on earth is the best player in the NBA doing it ruining Brown's tremendous coaching in the 1st half by going 0 for 6 in the 3rd quarter?? That argument is the same as yours and just as ridiculous. How on earth can you say it's all the players in the 4th but all Brown in the 3rd?? There is simply no comibination of the two at any point??
-----------------


SportyFans.






This is the same guy that credited James and soley James for the Cleveland Cavs turn around from that 15-67 season.











I mean let's call a hypocrite a MainCourse fer cripes sakes.

Yeah, but Brown wasn't there that season!! And again, we have discussed this. That is not what I said or meant by that, and you know it.

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Yeah, but Brown wasn't there that season!! And again, we have discussed this. That is not what I said or meant by that, and you know it.

----------------------------

SportyFans...you decide if he said it or not:







Originally Posted by horseofcourse
Silly, silly man. Before LeBron got to Cleveland the team hadn't had a 30 win season in over 3 years. The team was 15-67 the season before LeBron got there. In two years he had them over .500. They have won 3 playoff series in the last 2 years after having not won one since 1993. They have back to back 50 win seasons for only the second time in close to 40 years in existence.

HE hit not one, but two game winning shots in the playoffs last year. At age 22, LeBron has 15 playoff wins...I think at that age, Bird and Jordan had a total of zero combined.

Why bother with facts when making things up is so much better!!!


-------------------------------------


I would say he did say it.





What about you?

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by mortimerdexterfoxworthy

----------------------------

SportyFans...you decide if he said it or not:







Originally Posted by horseofcourse
Silly, silly man. Before LeBron got to Cleveland the team hadn't had a 30 win season in over 3 years. The team was 15-67 the season before LeBron got there. In two years he had them over .500. They have won 3 playoff series in the last 2 years after having not won one since 1993. They have back to back 50 win seasons for only the second time in close to 40 years in existence.

HE hit not one, but two game winning shots in the playoffs last year. At age 22, LeBron has 15 playoff wins...I think at that age, Bird and Jordan had a total of zero combined.

Why bother with facts when making things up is so much better!!!


-------------------------------------


I would say he did say it.





What about you?

I still don't see in that post mr mortimer (or ms...don't know your gender) where I said James was "solely" responsible. I didn't mention coaching or coaches or anything. I simply said in two years James had them over .500 as a general statement responding to a post that said he was overrated. YOu're gonna have to employ better spacing and more of it next time!!!

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I still don't see in that post mr mortimer (or ms...don't know your gender) where I said James was "solely" responsible. I didn't mention coaching or coaches or anything. I simply said in two years James had them over .500 as a general statement responding to a post that said he was overrated. YOu're gonna have to employ better spacing and more of it next time!!!

-----------------------------

SportyFans......





...let's add legally blind to our NBA analysts resume.


=;>

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by mortimerdexterfoxworthy

-----------------------------

SportyFans......





...let's add legally blind to our NBA analysts resume.


=;>

I am glad you know me so well as to be able to infer things from what I write that I didn't say. Are you my biological mom??

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I am glad you know me so well as to be able to infer things from what I write that I didn't say. Are you my biological mom??

------------------
Before LeBron got to Cleveland the team hadn't had a 30 win season in over 3 years. The team was 15-67 the season before LeBron got there. In two years he had them over .500. They have won 3 playoff series in the last 2 years after having not won one since 1993. They have back to back 50 win seasons for only the second time in close to 40 years in existence.
-------------------

I don't know....can you help SportyFans?


Do you see the names,Z,Hughes,Snow,Gooden,Andy V. anywheres in the above??...just to name a few?










Are they layed between the lines???








Doggone it....I can't find any other name but James' !!

[GPK]

Originally Posted by mortimerdexterfoxworthy

----------------------------

SportyFans...you decide if he said it or not:







Originally Posted by horseofcourse
Silly, silly man. Before LeBron got to Cleveland the team hadn't had a 30 win season in over 3 years. The team was 15-67 the season before LeBron got there. In two years he had them over .500. They have won 3 playoff series in the last 2 years after having not won one since 1993. They have back to back 50 win seasons for only the second time in close to 40 years in existence.

HE hit not one, but two game winning shots in the playoffs last year. At age 22, LeBron has 15 playoff wins...I think at that age, Bird and Jordan had a total of zero combined.
Why bother with facts when making things up is so much better!!!


-------------------------------------


I would say he did say it.





What about you?

a very unfair comparison....Bird was 23 in his rookie year. The Celtics finished that 79-80 season 61-21, which was first in the Atlantic Division. The PREVIOUS season before Bird's rookie season....29-53 and 5th in the Atlantic Division.

Don't bring age into this...Bird a much greater impact on his team his rookie year than Lebron did.

Originally Posted by GPK

a very unfair comparison....Bird was 23 in his rookie year. The Celtics finished that 79-80 season 61-21, which was first in the Atlantic Division. The PREVIOUS season before Bird's rookie season....29-53 and 5th in the Atlantic Division.

Don't bring age into this...Bird a much greater impact on his team his rookie year than Lebron did.

That was the 2nd biggest turnaround in NBA basketball.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by pgardn

That was the 2nd biggest turnaround in NBA basketball.

Pat, I didn't even MENTION the fact they won the NBA championship in Birds 2ND season....


Don't get me wrong...I like Lebron...seems like a great young man. But people just can't compare him and Bird at this stage of their respective careers....it just isn't fair to Lebron.

Originally Posted by GPK

Pat, I didn't even MENTION the fact they won the NBA championship in Birds 2ND season....


Don't get me wrong...I like Lebron...seems like a great young man. But people just can't compare him and Bird at this stage of their respective careers....it just isn't fair to Lebron.

Bird had already played against the best in college. He was very seasoned. Lebron is but a wee 6' 8" 240 lb. manchild. Making babies a bit early imo.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GPK

a very unfair comparison....Bird was 23 in his rookie year. The Celtics finished that 79-80 season 61-21, which was first in the Atlantic Division. The PREVIOUS season before Bird's rookie season....29-53 and 5th in the Atlantic Division.

Don't bring age into this...Bird a much greater impact on his team his rookie year than Lebron did.

However if you look at the Celts season before you will see that there were several reasons why they improved that had nothing to do with Bird. The 78-79 Celts were coached by Tom Sanders and then Dave Cowens as a player-coach, both poor coaches. The season was upended by 1/2 the roster being traded to Buffalo after 20 games. Tiny Archabald had his worst season as a pro partly because he was coming off missing a year due to a serious foot injury and also because of a fued between him and a fading Jo Jo White. The Celtics hired Bill Fitch for the next season (Birds first), got rid of most of the trouble makers like Marvin Barnes and White, moved Cowens back to the floor, signed Pistol Pete for offense off the bench, inserted Chris Ford in Whites place, utilized the thug ML Carr as a sixth man and added one of the top 5 all time great players. Cornbread was in his prime.

Bird, of course was the biggest reason, but the Celts self imposed chaos of the previous 2 seasons with coaching changes, trades, ownership upheaval made them worse than they really were. Dont forget that there were 4 Hall of Famers on the roster in Birds first year.

The Cavs on the other hand were just plain bad. 17-65 is really bad. That was with Carlos Boozer, Ilguakas, Dejuan Wagner, and Ricky Davis. They added Lebron and Jeff Mcginnis subtracted Davis and improved 18 games with Paul Silas as coach. Adding Jeff McGinnis and improving is a feat in itself.