Bob and John wins Lone Star Park Handicap

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I guess my point is are these horses really overrated?? They both won some nice Derby preps last year and ran in two classic races. SNS perhaps was overrated going into the Derby as the favorite, but he wasn't a disaster running 7th with a rough trip and then 2nd in the Preakness. Bob and John did not run well in either the Derby or Belmont. They both belonged in those races however. Both took extended breaks after the classics. SNS came back and ran an allowance at Laurel and a minor stake at Delaware Park and this year has run in 3 grade 3s, a local stakes at Laurel and the Sunshine Millions Classic which it would be stupid not to run him in being a million dollar race and all. His trainer certainly isn't overrating him with those placements. Bob and John came back to nothing races in Cal last year and now 2 stakes at Lone Star. His trainer doesn't appear to be overrating him.

I haven't seen a whole lot of chatter on these boards this year proclaming the greatness of these two horses. But again, you're talking about one horse 4 thousand dollars from a million (Bob and John) and another 40 thousand dollars away from 900 thousand (Sweetnorthernsaint). They're very talented horses who other than perhaps being a bit over valued heading into the triple crown races last year, I'm not seeing where they are still "overrated".

Both are being placed realistically in spots where they should have a chance to win...I don't see where "overrated" applies to these animals anymore.

I may be exaggerating slightly, but not much. . .

SNS beat nobody in the Illinois Derby, did nothing in the KY derby and then ran second in the preakness when it fell apart. . . He still gets pounded down to odds on in races where he has no chance to win- he wasn't winning the races at GP and there was NO way he was beating Master Command (who may have been favored over him in the race @ HAW). . . People still think highly of him because of all the buzz he got before the derby, and in my opinion, the hype is completely unwarranted. . . He's probably a G3 caliber horse, but come on- the race today wasn't a G3 caliber race. . . The checks SNS' connections have cashed have been in joke races like this- so your earnings argument has a flaw. . .

I won't get too in-depth about Bob and John. . . He beat terribly weak fields out west and got very luck that the Wood came up sloppy because he actually shows some semblance of talent in the slop. . . Since then he's been cashing checks in little, weak fields that don't deserve the purses or grades that they've gotten. . .

Maybe I'm being too hard on these horses. . . Part of my problem is that there are actually races out there like this one that carry graded status and big purses. . . Bob and John doesn't deserve a G3 win and his share of 388k for beating 3 other horses on a sloppy track today. . .

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

I may be exaggerating slightly, but not much. . .

SNS beat nobody in the Illinois Derby, did nothing in the KY derby and then ran second in the preakness when it fell apart. . . He still gets pounded down to odds on in races where he has no chance to win- he wasn't winning the races at GP and there was NO way he was beating Master Command (who may have been favored over him in the race @ HAW). . . People still think highly of him because of all the buzz he got before the derby, and in my opinion, the hype is completely unwarranted. . . He's probably a G3 caliber horse, but come on- the race today wasn't a G3 caliber race. . . The checks SNS' connections have cashed have been in joke races like this- so your earnings argument has a flaw. . .

I won't get too in-depth about Bob and John. . . He beat terribly weak fields out west and got very luck that the Wood came up sloppy because he actually shows some semblance of talent in the slop. . . Since then he's been cashing checks in little, weak fields that don't deserve the purses or grades that they've gotten. . .

Maybe I'm being too hard on these horses. . . Part of my problem is that there are actually races out there like this one that carry graded status and big purses. . . Bob and John doesn't deserve a G3 win and his share of 388k for beating 3 other horses on a sloppy track today. . .

The connections of these horses weren't banning people from entering the Lone Star Derby. It is a 400 grand race and if people don't want to bring there horses they don't have to. When SNS runs in Laurel who should be favored??? Who should have been favored today?? SNS of course had good chances to win at GP this year. He ran a nice 3rd only a length behind two good milers in the Hal's Hope. In the Millions Classic he ran his poorest race of the year for some reason. To say he had no shot is not true. He wasnt' favored at Hawthorne. My earnings argument has zero flaw. Noone is not allowing horses to run in races.

The Preakness fell apart?? No...SNS was the one chasing very quick fractions set by the McLaughlin horse. If the race "fell part"...he is the one that should have been out of the money. He held on. Yes, if Barbaro doesn't break down he finishes 3rd most likely. Ok, I'll give you that.

I prefer to give Trombetta credit for finding places for his horse to run. IF he finds 250,000 and 400,000 dollar grade 3 races with 4 and 5 horse fields at Hawthorne and Lone STar...good for him. More people should try it!!

If these horses are so overrated, more than 2 other horses really should have shown up today.

Sweetnorthernsaint has been an excellent horse on off tracks as well, so I don't think it's fair to downgrade B and Js effort as a slop only effort. I think SNS was 2 for 2 in slop as well coming into today.

[pba1817]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Maybe I'm being too hard on these horses. . . Part of my problem is that there are actually races out there like this one that carry graded status and big purses. . . Bob and John doesn't deserve a G3 win and his share of 388k for beating 3 other horses on a sloppy track today. . .

I do not see how you can blame the horses who do enter for the lack on field size, unless they are that much better. Blame the racing secretary and the track for not pushing their premiere race to get trainers interested.

Maybe these two entrants made other G3 level horses shy away? Both of these particular horses are a step below the top tier of the handicap division. So this is exactly where they fit, weaker G2 and solid G3/non-graded stakes races.

Side note... While at the OTB this Memorial day I saw 24 tracks who were in action. 24!! and MANY had 6 or 7 horse fields.... pathetic.

We have too many tracks, with too many races....

[Seattleallstar]

bob and john is the 2nd coming of Captn Steve

[sumitas]

the ex paid $7.80...it was a gift.

[Danzig]

B&J supposed to go to the hollywood gold cup next.....is lava man supposed to be there?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar

bob and john is the 2nd coming of Captn Steve

I'm sure the connections would be thrilled with Bob and John winning the Dubai World Cup. Perhaps he could end up the next Congaree...that would probably make them happy as well.

If your statement was meant as an insult then I think you chose the wrong horse to compare him to.

NT

It would've been nice to see these two great horses run in the Met Mile instead. They were definitely needed in that race.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm sure the connections would be thrilled with Bob and John winning the Dubai World Cup. Perhaps he could end up the next Congaree...that would probably make them happy as well.

If your statement was meant as an insult then I think you chose the wrong horse to compare him to.

NT

Captain Steve was a very nice horse.

Seattle probably got him mixed up with Cap'n Crunch, who he lost a week's pay on betting him in a match race against Count Chocula.

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Captain Steve was a very nice horse.

Seattle probably got him mixed up with Cap'n Crunch, who he lost a week's pay on betting him in a match race against Count Chocula.

Count Chocula was scratched. Boo Berry was a late replacement.

[Buffymommy]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Count Chocula was scratched. Boo Berry was a late replacement.

Hey, I love BOO BERRY!!! Actually just finished a box about a week or so ago.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Count Chocula was scratched. Boo Berry was a late replacement.

boo berry would kick cap'n crunches ass.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm sure the connections would be thrilled with Bob and John winning the Dubai World Cup. Perhaps he could end up the next Congaree...that would probably make them happy as well.

If your statement was meant as an insult then I think you chose the wrong horse to compare him to.

NT

yeah, doesn't that post kinda violate rule number one for when you want to slam a horse, by likening him to a much better horse who won the DWC.

I would think Baffert would be thrilled if he had another Captain Steve on his hands.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

yeah, doesn't that post kinda violate rule number one for when you want to slam a horse, by likening him to a much better horse who won the DWC.

I would think Baffert would be thrilled if he had another Captain Steve on his hands.

Absolutely...and then you have to love the comeback which usually goes something like, "Oh well the handicap division was terrible back then and that was like the worst running of the Dubai World Cup ever."

NT

[Seattleallstar]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm sure the connections would be thrilled with Bob and John winning the Dubai World Cup. Perhaps he could end up the next Congaree...that would probably make them happy as well.

If your statement was meant as an insult then I think you chose the wrong horse to compare him to.

NT

it was meant as a compliment, you guys are getting too harsh on me. Capt Steve and Bob and John have their limitations, but they are good horses. If properly placed they can win their share of Grade 1's and possibly a less than stellar renewal of the DWC

[jpops757]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

I may be exaggerating slightly, but not much. . .

SNS beat nobody in the Illinois Derby, did nothing in the KY derby and then ran second in the preakness when it fell apart. . . He still gets pounded down to odds on in races where he has no chance to win- he wasn't winning the races at GP and there was NO way he was beating Master Command (who may have been favored over him in the race @ HAW). . . People still think highly of him because of all the buzz he got before the derby, and in my opinion, the hype is completely unwarranted. . . He's probably a G3 caliber horse, but come on- the race today wasn't a G3 caliber race. . . The checks SNS' connections have cashed have been in joke races like this- so your earnings argument has a flaw. . .

I won't get too in-depth about Bob and John. . . He beat terribly weak fields out west and got very luck that the Wood came up sloppy because he actually shows some semblance of talent in the slop. . . Since then he's been cashing checks in little, weak fields that don't deserve the purses or grades that they've gotten. . .

Maybe I'm being too hard on these horses. . . Part of my problem is that there are actually races out there like this one that carry graded status and big purses. . . Bob and John doesn't deserve a G3 win and his share of 388k for beating 3 other horses on a sloppy track today. . .

Maybe what your saying is there are some stupid conections of better horses that wouldnt take a shot at the 400k purse. If this is the case who wasnt at LS that should have been?