Mineshaft - am I losing my mind?

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar

**** you oracle and your sanctimonious bs.

Jerrys TOp horses in the last 10 years

1.Dubai Millennium---GHOSTZAPPER
2.Rock Of Gibraltar
3.Candy Ride
4.Point Given
5.Fusaichi Pegasus
6.Mineshaft--see there he is
7.Azeri
8.High Chapparal
9.Dalakhani
10.Cigar

Nice edit!!! Glad I could be of some assistance, of course this then becomes a top 11 list, and you now have Cigar not in the top ten but do include Fu Peg(LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and Candy Ride(LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). Go find me two sane human beings that think that Candy Ride and FuPeg rate above Cigar and get back to me.

[Seattleallstar]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Nice edit!!! Glad I could be of some assistance, of course this then becomes a top 11 list, and you now have Cigar not in the top ten but do include Fu Peg(LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and Candy Ride(LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). Go find me two sane human beings that think that Candy Ride and FuPeg rate above Cigar and get back to me.

sorry azzhole, it was thunder gulch's post that reminded me. I should probably take off Cigar and put in Left Bank instead

[Pedigree Ann]

Azeri was a great two-turn miler-plus. She was managed quite well in her early days to exploit her area of expertise, and she became a champion because many track managers have decided that poor, delicate female horses can't run farther than 9f. But when she tried one turn races, at 7f and 9f, and distances beyond 9f, she was beaten. She was no Personal Ensign, no Susan's Girl, no Princess Rooney, no Bayakoa or Paseana.

Restore the BC Distaff to 10f, I say!

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Azeri was a great two-turn miler-plus. She was managed quite well in her early days to exploit her area of expertise, and she became a champion because many track managers have decided that poor, delicate female horses can't run farther than 9f. But when she tried one turn races, at 7f and 9f, and distances beyond 9f, she was beaten. She was no Personal Ensign, no Susan's Girl, no Princess Rooney, no Bayakoa or Paseana.

Restore the BC Distaff to 10f, I say!

I personally think that races should not be further than 1 1/8 miles.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I personally think that races should not be further than 1 1/8 miles.

You being sarcastic or sincere? I hope the former.

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

You being sarcastic or sincere? I hope the former.

I was being sarcastic. The industry in the US is speed speed and more speed. Wouldnt surprise me at all if the powers that be shortens up the Classic.

[Seattleallstar]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I was being sarcastic. The industry in the US is speed speed and more speed. Wouldnt surprise me at all if the powers that be shortens up the Classic.

If that happens im moving to Canada

[Pedigree Ann]

Let's see, what do Run Dusty Run, Sanhedrin, and Iron Constitution have in common, besides being horses most of you never heard of? They placed in Triple Crown races behind Seattle Slew, the first two more than once. Except for J.O. Tobin, who was real head-case with gobs of talent but couldn't be depended on to run his race on the track and not the paddock, his classic generation was not loaded with memorable horses.

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Let's see, what do Run Dusty Run, Sanhedrin, and Iron Constitution have in common, besides being horses most of you never heard of? They placed in Triple Crown races behind Seattle Slew, the first two more than once. Except for J.O. Tobin, who was real head-case with gobs of talent but couldn't be depended on to run his race on the track and not the paddock, his classic generation was not loaded with memorable horses.

If Seattle Slew had been retired after hs 3YO year ... I would have had grave doubts about calling him "great" ... for the very reasons you cite ... namely pizz-poor opposition.

But his performance as a 4YO wiped away all doubt.

Now here's something which will start an argument ...

I do not consider Ruffian to be rankable among the greats ... I think she was the most electric and talented filly I've ever seen ... but I rate her actual career on the racetrack as "Incomplete" .... because ...

... she only beat an extremely weak crop of fillies her own age ... never beat older fillies ... and never beat colts. She "probably" could have done those things ... but woulda/shoulda/coulda doesn't count.

Just as Seattle Slew had to be doubted after his 3YO season ended early ... so too with Ruffian.

You keep using logic and historical perception and facts and you are really gonna **** up a lot of people here.

Why does a female need to beat males in order to be great? I dont understand that logic.

[JJP]

These are my top 10 for the past 25 years, in no particular order (actually alphabetical, since it would be too difficult to rank them 1-10).

Alysheba, Cigar, Easy Goer, Ghostzapper, John Henry, Risen Star, Skip Away, Slew O Gold, Spend A Buck, Sunday Silence.

No, I don't buy into the theory that top horses are better now than 20 years ago.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

If Seattle Slew had been retired after hs 3YO year ... I would have had grave doubts about calling him "great" ... for the very reasons you cite ... namely pizz-poor opposition.

But his performance as a 4YO wiped away all doubt.

Now here's something which will start an argument ...

I do not consider Ruffian to be rankable among the greats ... I think she was the most electric and talented filly I've ever seen ... but I rate her actual career on the racetrack as "Incomplete" .... because ...

... she only beat an extremely weak crop of fillies her own age ... never beat older fillies ... and never beat colts. She "probably" could have done those things ... but woulda/shoulda/coulda doesn't count.

Just as Seattle Slew had to be doubted after his 3YO season ended early ... so too with Ruffian.

Yeah, but Ruffian set or equalled stakes/track records every time out. She won at different tracks at different distances ranging from five and a half furlongs to 1 1/2 miles, and never lost. She won the filly TC. In the great match race, the jock was the regular rider of both Foolish Pleasure and Ruffian. He decided to ride Ruffian. They decided to race against Foolish Pleasure because he was the best colt in the country at the time. Lucian Lauren once said that she might even be as great as Secretariat.

If accomplishing all those feats isn't greatness, I don't know what is.

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Yeah, but Ruffian set or equalled stakes/track records every time out. She won at different tracks at different distances ranging from five and a half furlongs to 1 1/2 miles, and never lost.

True ... true ... true.

But she did those things while beating up on a bunch of sad sack fillies her own age. How would she have performed against tougher, older fillies or a tough colt like Foolish Pleasure?

Would she have run as well as she did against the easy opposition ... or would she have cracked when challenged by a good horse ... like Lost In The Fog did?

And don't say, "I think she woulda/coulda/shoulda" ... because that doesn't count. I loved Ruffian as much as anyone did ... but ... based on her actual races ... I can't give her a specific ranking among the great fillies ... I can only give her an "Incomplete."