Rags To Riches to Belmont?

[slotdirt]

I would rather see Hard Spun, Curlin, and Street Sense in a three horse Belmont than not see those three and have some nag win the race.

[horseofcourse]

It is hard to fathom how Hard Spun, Street Sense, and Curlin lining up again in two weeks and going at it would be bad for racing. Rags to Riches should run in the race as well.

[King Glorious]

If I could somehow see the future and know that even if they run Belmont that they would be back for the summer and fall, I would be all for them running. But recent history tells me that this is not going to be the case. Haven't u all seen Smarty, Alex, Giacomo, Jazil, Bluegrass Cat, Empire Maker, Point Given, Charismatic, Monarchos, Silver Charm, and Real Quiet? Various reasons for their not running. Some physical, some economical. I understand that but the end result is that they still did not run. I can't guarantee that skipping the Belmont would mean they would be there for the Haskell and Travers and more. But I don't like the current trend. Over the past 10 seasons, we've had 11 horses that have won at least one TC race while competing in all three races. Of those 11, eight of them failed to finish their 3yo seasons. Seven of those eight didn't run again that year after the Belmont. For a sport that's so entrenched in remembering history and jinx' and trends, I'm surprised this one isn't being looked at more.

[Mortimer]

What kind of buy out inducement would it take?

[Danzig]

well, obviously we'd all be geniuses if we could know the future, and decide based on that knowledge....

i believe if a horse is ready now, you run them now. if they seem to need a break, give them one. but to 'save' a horse for later may not work at all-skip a race now, then miss later as well, which of course could happen--there is no guarantee of anything.
can't help thinking tho that it wasn't just the rigors of racing that kept some of these latest contenders from running again post-t.c.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Danzig

well, obviously we'd all be geniuses if we could know the future, and decide based on that knowledge....

i believe if a horse is ready now, you run them now. if they seem to need a break, give them one. but to 'save' a horse for later may not work at all-skip a race now, then miss later as well, which of course could happen--there is no guarantee of anything.
can't help thinking tho that it wasn't just the rigors of racing that kept some of these latest contenders from running again post-t.c.

To an extent, I agree. I remember when Zito skipped the Juvenile with Eurosilver and Birdstone while mentioning how he wanted to save them for the Derby. I thought that was silly. I thought like u do......strike while the iron is hot. I still feel that way. But in that case and in a lot of other cases, we can't find a direct connection between races. I think that with the TC races, we can. It's just odd to me that this being such a tradition and trend driven sport, this isn't brought up more. There was never any guarantee that running three preps or not having a layoff more than four weeks would win u a Derby. There was no guarantee that having a 2yo foundation would win the race. Yet people stick with these things like they are law. Well they pretty much did until this year. These facts that I've given, they aren't made up though. They aren't beliefs. And even though I agree with u that it wasn't always racing rigors that led to those horses leaving us, they still did. I understand that some of it was economics, especially in the cases of Empire Maker and Point Given. That could happen with one of these two also. When seven of 11 haven't run past the Belmont and eight of the 11 didn't finish their 3yo seasons out, that's not giving me hope that this year's group will be any different. I don't want to be saying next year that it's 10 of 13.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

To an extent, I agree. I remember when Zito skipped the Juvenile with Eurosilver and Birdstone while mentioning how he wanted to save them for the Derby. I thought that was silly. I thought like u do......strike while the iron is hot. I still feel that way. But in that case and in a lot of other cases, we can't find a direct connection between races. I think that with the TC races, we can. It's just odd to me that this being such a tradition and trend driven sport, this isn't brought up more. There was never any guarantee that running three preps or not having a layoff more than four weeks would win u a Derby. There was no guarantee that having a 2yo foundation would win the race. Yet people stick with these things like they are law. Well they pretty much did until this year. These facts that I've given, they aren't made up though. They aren't beliefs. And even though I agree with u that it wasn't always racing rigors that led to those horses leaving us, they still did. I understand that some of it was economics, especially in the cases of Empire Maker and Point Given. That could happen with one of these two also. When seven of 11 haven't run past the Belmont and eight of the 11 didn't finish their 3yo seasons out, that's not giving me hope that this year's group will be any different. I don't want to be saying next year that it's 10 of 13.

but by the same token, what were the records of those horses leading up to the derby? street sense has run four times this year. hard spun with an eight week layoff leading to the derby, curlin's fourth lifetime was the derby. so how do those compare to the training, racing, of those who came before?

[Merlinsky]

I just think it'd be a good idea to reinstate the bonus they had awhile back. It wasn't a $5mil grand prize for the TC, it was something like $1mil for the best overall performance in all 3 races and a certain number of positions (I dunno, top 3, 4, 5 or something?) got points so you couldn't finish dead last in all 3 and get it just because nobody else ran in all the races. They should reinstitute that. It's like saying 'hey maybe you didn't win the TC but you ran in the TC races and did well, here's a million and thanks for not skipping out on us to run in another race down the road instead of the Belmont.' There ought to be a solid competition just to finish in the money consistently and to show up.