Clinton Portis

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by ninetoone

Portis is a bozo...we should have kept Champ Bailey...

The Skins need to go back to these days badly...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsnXK6mjuH4

I watched the interview with him and Samuels today, Samuels was mainly saying that Vick is entitled to the same treatment as anyone else (innocent until proven guilty) and I agree with that but then even he fell into the mindless trap of..."it's only cause he's famous" and "other people do worse things". Portis obviously thinks it's a big joke and his comments hinted that other NFL players perhaps even him are likewise involved in dog fighting. This is serious business for the NFL and I hope they have the guts to deal with it! My position will not change...anyone convicted of this horror should be banned for life from the NFL and jailed (two states don't consider it a felony, 48 do)...in any event, I don't want to see folks like this making money in the NFL to support their perversion!

[horseofcourse]

IN all honesty, I don't think it's all that bad. I don't agree with it, but lets get real, just as we may rip these guys to shreds, there are those who think horse racing is barbaric and cruel and in many ways it really is, yet we'll respond in ways that Portis is responding to dog fighting detractors. We drug these animals mercilessly, perhaps cruelly at times simply so we can bet on them. Many die needlessly for our enjoyment. And this is a whole lot different than dog fighting how?? If Portis grew up with dog fighting, I really can't criticize him that much for thinking as he does. I certainly enjoy horse racing , but I can't help thinking how cruel it is often. IF I take drugs it is my choice. These horses have no choice.

Let the ripping and shredding of me commence!!!

[Mortimer]

Oh I think you've done a fine job of that yourself.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by mortimerdexterfoxworthy

Oh I think you've done a fine job of that yourself.

OF course I'm right, I usually am.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

IN all honesty, I don't think it's all that bad. I don't agree with it, but lets get real, just as we may rip these guys to shreds, there are those who think horse racing is barbaric and cruel and in many ways it really is, yet we'll respond in ways that Portis is responding to dog fighting detractors. We drug these animals mercilessly, perhaps cruelly at times simply so we can bet on them. Many die needlessly for our enjoyment. And this is a whole lot different than dog fighting how?? If Portis grew up with dog fighting, I really can't criticize him that much for thinking as he does. I certainly enjoy horse racing , but I can't help thinking how cruel it is often. IF I take drugs it is my choice. These horses have no choice.

Let the ripping and shredding of me commence!!!

No ripping but I disagree. As a long time PETA member and someone who worked for years in horse rescue, I've seen the dark underbelly of racing...there are folks who should be banned from the sport as they don't give a damn about the welfare of the horses, I could spend days relating horror stories...that said, most folks in the sport love horses and really do care about them. I'm not talking about degenerate gamblers who only see a number and care only if they cash or not, but I worked on the backstretch, it's a tough life, dirty, long hours, little money...you only do it if you love horses! Anything that involves people has it's share of bad folk but, as a whole, I think people who work in racing with the horses are among the best people I've ever met. The object of racing isn't cruelty, it isn't torture, it isn't totally disregarding the preciousness of life...dog fighting, coc-k fighting, bull fights are all human perversion. They are in no way the same as racing. And...they are against the law. Portis and his like don't get that...I worked in the prisons for ten years, I heard it every day, "Other people do it, it isn't fair that I'm being punished" That is a morally bandrupt point of view...we all have free will, we make our own choices and we are each responsible for our actions. A dog isn't property, neither is a horse, chicken, cow or any animal...they are living beings and their lives are sacred. Man has dominion over the animals, we eat meat and use their hides but we have no right to torture them or kill them simply for enjoyment. It is a fact that kids who torture and kill animals often go on to exhibit extreme sociopathic behavior...an early warning sign of a budding serial killer is his/her killing of neighborhood pets. This isn't just some unimportant entertainment or cultural
issue...this is serious stuff!

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

No ripping but I disagree. As a long time PETA member and someone who worked for years in horse rescue, I've seen the dark underbelly of racing...there are folks who should be banned from the sport as they don't give a damn about the welfare of the horses, I could spend days relating horror stories...that said, most folks in the sport love horses and really do care about them. I'm not talking about degenerate gamblers who only see a number and care only if they cash or not, but I worked on the backstretch, it's a tough life, dirty, long hours, little money...you only do it if you love horses! Anything that involves people has it's share of bad folk but, as a whole, I think people who work in racing with the horses are among the best people I've ever met. The object of racing isn't cruelty, it isn't torture, it isn't totally disregarding the preciousness of life...dog fighting, coc-k fighting, bull fights are all human perversion. They are in no way the same as racing. And...they are against the law. Portis and his like don't get that...I worked in the prisons for ten years, I heard it every day, "Other people do it, it isn't fair that I'm being punished" That is a morally bandrupt point of view...we all have free will, we make our own choices and we are each responsible for our actions. A dog isn't property, neither is a horse, chicken, cow or any animal...they are living beings and their lives are sacred. Man has dominion over the animals, we eat meat and use their hides but we have no right to torture them or kill them simply for enjoyment. It is a fact that kids who torture and kill animals often go on to exhibit extreme sociopathic behavior...an early warning sign of a budding serial killer is his/her killing of neighborhood pets. This isn't just some unimportant entertainment or cultural
issue...this is serious stuff!

My point about Portis is he isn't involved in it. He said something stupid. That is hardly high crimes and misdemeanors. Many race horses have in fact been killed for our enjoyment. Was it on purpose? no, of course not, but many have been killed for the express purpose of our enjoyment. Every cow and chicken is killed for the purpose of our enjoyment...period. That is if you consider eating enjoyable and I actually do which to me means they are killed for our enjoyment. Didn't our current president blow up frogs?? He's not a serial killer (alledgedly!)

I enjoy trying to defend the seemingly indefensible. It is a challenge.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

My point about Portis is he isn't involved in it. He said something stupid. That is hardly high crimes and misdemeanors. Many race horses have in fact been killed for our enjoyment. Was it on purpose? no, of course not, but many have been killed for the express purpose of our enjoyment. Every cow and chicken is killed for the purpose of our enjoyment...period. That is if you consider eating enjoyable and I actually do which to me means they are killed for our enjoyment. Didn't our current president blow up frogs?? He's not a serial killer (alledgedly!)

I enjoy trying to defend the seemingly indefensible. It is a challenge.

I respect your efforts! Eating is sorta necessary and, by natural evolution, mankind is a carnivorous species, we may find it enjoyable but it is also necessary. Whether our current President is a serial killer or not depends on who you talk to (DTS would say yes) but clearly I'm not saying killing frogs constitutes serial killing...I merely stated the fact that many start with domestic animals before moving on to human prey...in fact, when we looked at backgrounds of sociopathic patients, we always started with whether there was animal abuse.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I respect your efforts! Eating is sorta necessary and, by natural evolution, mankind is a carnivorous species, we may find it enjoyable but it is also necessary. Whether our current President is a serial killer or not depends on who you talk to (DTS would say yes) but clearly I'm not saying killing frogs constitutes serial killing...I merely stated the fact that many start with domestic animals before moving on to human prey...in fact, when we looked at backgrounds of sociopathic patients, we always started with whether there was animal abuse.

Yup! He is!
He's also a war criminal.
How can so many people find sympathy for dogs but not children that have to deal with mines, cluster bombs, and the torture and death of their parents?

[Danzig]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6852866

vick a 'heavyweight' in dog fighting.....

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Saw that this morning. That Vick's a real great guy. Hopefully Goodell doesn't give Vick a pass here.

Again, he hasn't even been charged yet and he's innocent until proven guilty but IF this report is true, I stand behind my original point that a lifetime ban must be imposed!

[FGFan]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

No ripping but I disagree. As a long time PETA member and someone who worked for years in horse rescue, I've seen the dark underbelly of racing...there are folks who should be banned from the sport as they don't give a damn about the welfare of the horses, I could spend days relating horror stories...that said, most folks in the sport love horses and really do care about them. I'm not talking about degenerate gamblers who only see a number and care only if they cash or not, but I worked on the backstretch, it's a tough life, dirty, long hours, little money...you only do it if you love horses! Anything that involves people has it's share of bad folk but, as a whole, I think people who work in racing with the horses are among the best people I've ever met. The object of racing isn't cruelty, it isn't torture, it isn't totally disregarding the preciousness of life...dog fighting, coc-k fighting, bull fights are all human perversion. They are in no way the same as racing. And...they are against the law. Portis and his like don't get that...I worked in the prisons for ten years, I heard it every day, "Other people do it, it isn't fair that I'm being punished" That is a morally bandrupt point of view...we all have free will, we make our own choices and we are each responsible for our actions. A dog isn't property, neither is a horse, chicken, cow or any animal...they are living beings and their lives are sacred. Man has dominion over the animals, we eat meat and use their hides but we have no right to torture them or kill them simply for enjoyment. It is a fact that kids who torture and kill animals often go on to exhibit extreme sociopathic behavior...an early warning sign of a budding serial killer is his/her killing of neighborhood pets. This isn't just some unimportant entertainment or cultural
issue...this is serious stuff!

Curious I have never known a PETA person that supports Horseracing, isn't it against the rules. And in many states dogs and domestic animals including livestock are classified as chattel/property. I am also in breed rescue, I save the power breeds. But I am in no way a supporter of PETA, HSUS, or any of the other animal RIGHTS, not welfare but animal RIGHTS groups.
Albeit the article/interview is ridiculous, dog fighting is a felony period, even in our heathen state of Louisiana.
It is also serious stuff that animal rights groups want to take away many of our rights around the world.
I just don't get PETA and enjoying horseracing, best be careful they may take your card away. OH yeah, they just want your money.
And isn't PETA that just went to court for killing strays...hmmmmm

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by FGFan

Curious I have never known a PETA person that supports Horseracing, isn't it against the rules. And in many states dogs and domestic animals including livestock are classified as chattel/property. I am also in breed rescue, I save the power breeds. But I am in no way a supporter of PETA, HSUS, or any of the other animal RIGHTS, not welfare but animal RIGHTS groups.
Albeit the article/interview is ridiculous, dog fighting is a felony period, even in our heathen state of Louisiana.
It is also serious stuff that animal rights groups want to take away many of our rights around the world.
I just don't get PETA and enjoying horseracing, best be careful they may take your card away. OH yeah, they just want your money.
And isn't PETA that just went to court for killing strays...hmmmmm

Any organization as large as PETA is gonna earn the occasional black-eye, sure they have put down large numbers of animals at times and unfortunately aren't always open and honest about it, but the coy remarks are missing the point...PETA works to improve the treatment of animals worldwide. Saying that I shouldn't support them cause they aren't perfect is ridiculous, using that standard nobody could support ANY organization! And I know lots of PETA members who enjoy horseracing, within PETA there are folks who want more humane treatment of animals, those who support the cause of animal rights, folks who want significant restrictions on personal liberties and folks who think it's morally wrong to kill a fly or bee. Just like folks who call themselves christians...there are those who use the bible as a guide and those who demand word-for-word compliance, and those that fall in the wide gap in between. The fact that the laws of man in many cases relegate animals to the classification of "property" doesn't make it right!

[FGFan]

PETA works to improve the treatment of animals worldwide.

At the expense of our own rights. PETA is a fanatical group that relies on psuedo terrorist behavior. As a matter of fact they are closely linked to ALF, the group that will blow up labs that do medical research, on the FBI worst domestic terrorism group along with ELF. Kind of like the pro-life people killing abortion Drs. Do what I say not what I do.
You brought up PETA, this thread started as dog fighting. Unfortunately even in the Animal Rights world PETA is very controversial.
Here's the links, let people decide for themselves.
http://www.peta.org/
http://www.earthliberationfront.com/
http://www.animalliberationfront.com/
I find them scary.
I am very much a proponent of free speech and thought, but in groups like PETA unless one follows their propoganda you are wrong.
In the aftermath of Katrina I had an upclose look at many of the groups such as PETA, who were not welcomed by any of the other animal rights groups.
I am all for animal welfare, but I draw the line at animal rights, especially groups that are closely linked to domestic terrorism.
Somehow I just can't see how PETA would tolerate horseracing, they are against the exploitation of animals, I would think any type of horseracing would be considered exploitation.
But back to the Vick thing, as has been said, it was a stupid comment, and if found guilty of dog fighting he will be convicted of a felony. You can police and judicate by laws, but you can't police stupid.
To each their own if you support PETA that is your choice, I just believe they are a fanatical group. There are better animal groups one could support.
I still say they would take away your card if they found you betting on horses.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by FGFan

PETA works to improve the treatment of animals worldwide.

At the expense of our own rights. PETA is a fanatical group that relies on psuedo terrorist behavior. As a matter of fact they are closely linked to ALF, the group that will blow up labs that do medical research, on the FBI worst domestic terrorism group along with ELF. Kind of like the pro-life people killing abortion Drs. Do what I say not what I do.
You brought up PETA, this thread started as dog fighting. Unfortunately even in the Animal Rights world PETA is very controversial.
Here's the links, let people decide for themselves.
http://www.peta.org/
http://www.earthliberationfront.com/
http://www.animalliberationfront.com/
I find them scary.
I am very much a proponent of free speech and thought, but in groups like PETA unless one follows their propoganda you are wrong.
In the aftermath of Katrina I had an upclose look at many of the groups such as PETA, who were not welcomed by any of the other animal rights groups.
I am all for animal welfare, but I draw the line at animal rights, especially groups that are closely linked to domestic terrorism.
Somehow I just can't see how PETA would tolerate horseracing, they are against the exploitation of animals, I would think any type of horseracing would be considered exploitation.
But back to the Vick thing, as has been said, it was a stupid comment, and if found guilty of dog fighting he will be convicted of a felony. You can police and judicate by laws, but you can't police stupid.
To each their own if you support PETA that is your choice, I just believe they are a fanatical group. There are better animal groups one could support.
I still say they would take away your card if they found you betting on horses.

Well, they haven't so far and I've been pretty outspoken about my support (as long as I feel folks are really trying to make the sport safer and that most really do love their horses...my personal experience teaches me that both are true). I think you are oversimplifying things...not all PETA members oppose horse racing! You bring up anti-abortion folks killing abortion doctors...that's a rather complex philosophical discussion...on the old ESPN board I once presented the argument for same based on logic and moral judgement...I was attacked (even though I clearly said it wasn't MY position) but the argument was never refuted. You use the term "pro-life", I prefer "anti-abortion" because just as most all people are "pro-life", most are also "pro-choice" when these terms are used in the broad sense...anyway, dog fighting is morally wrong imo!

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I watched the interview with him and Samuels today, Samuels was mainly saying that Vick is entitled to the same treatment as anyone else (innocent until proven guilty) and I agree with that but then even he fell into the mindless trap of..."it's only cause he's famous" and "other people do worse things". Portis obviously thinks it's a big joke and his comments hinted that other NFL players perhaps even him are likewise involved in dog fighting. This is serious business for the NFL and I hope they have the guts to deal with it! My position will not change...anyone convicted of this horror should be banned for life from the NFL and jailed (two states don't consider it a felony, 48 do)...in any event, I don't want to see folks like this making money in the NFL to support their perversion!

It's a good thing you aren't a lawmaker. My taxes would be over 80%. There would be 5 jails in every county.

Korea would be nuked. Oy vey.

[horseofcourse]

What did Portis do?? Say something stupid?? (of course none of us have ever done that..oh no.) Incredibly, I'm guessing some might even call my first post in this thread stupid...even mortimer who is quite possibly the most intelligent person ever placed on this planet (according to Garp.) Which may or may not be true. I don't know Clinton Portis from Adam, but he has every right to say what he did. Until Michael Vick is convicted of something, I really don't know what he did either.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

What did Portis do?? Say something stupid?? (of course none of us have ever done that..oh no.) Incredibly, I'm guessing some might even call my first post in this thread stupid...even mortimer who is quite possibly the most intelligent person ever placed on this planet (according to Garp.) Which may or may not be true. I don't know Clinton Portis from Adam, but he has every right to say what he did. Until Michael Vick is convicted of something, I really don't know what he did either.

Portis has a right to express his beliefs and so do I...the fact that he doesn't "get it" is hardly unique, the more troubling issue is that he implies that dog fighting is wide-spread in the NFL and he even implied that he might be involved...that doesn't mean I'm saying he's guilty of anything but he's opened a door and someone has to see what's inside!

[Samarta]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

What did Portis do?? Say something stupid?? (of course none of us have ever done that..oh no.) Incredibly, I'm guessing some might even call my first post in this thread stupid...even mortimer who is quite possibly the most intelligent person ever placed on this planet (according to Garp.) Which may or may not be true. I don't know Clinton Portis from Adam, but he has every right to say what he did. Until Michael Vick is convicted of something, I really don't know what he did either.

I haven't read the entire thread because I couldn't pass over this comment without a response....You don't know what he did wrong? You can't be serious....Besides the statement itself, here is the issue....His athletic ability has placed him in a position where he is not only a good football player, he is a respresentative of Joe Gibbs, The Washington Redskins, and the NFL. Whether he likes it, you like it, or anyone else likes, what he did was promote dog fighting.....to say there is nothing wrong with it as long as it's on private property....All he did was portray the exact image that the NFL, NBA, and every other major league sport is trying to get away from....I'm a big bad professional athlete and will dress as I please, say what I want, and about the only thing that you can do is boo me....that's b.s......

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Samarta

I haven't read the entire thread because I couldn't pass over this comment without a response....You don't know what he did wrong? You can't be serious....Besides the statement itself, here is the issue....His athletic ability has placed him in a position where he is not only a good football player, he is a respresentative of Joe Gibbs, The Washington Redskins, and the NFL. Whether he likes it, you like it, or anyone else likes, what he did was promote dog fighting.....to say there is nothing wrong with it as long as it's on private property....All he did was portray the exact image that the NFL, NBA, and every other major league sport is trying to get away from....I'm a big bad professional athlete and will dress as I please, say what I want, and about the only thing that you can do is boo me....that's b.s......

I'm just defending him. What did he do?? A point I was trying to make is that there are those who would consider horse racing as barbaric and cruel as dog fighting. Do I agree with that?? No I don't, but I can understand the point of view those who view horse racing like that are coming from. Someone growing up in poor, rural Mississippi, would most likely have a different point of view on dog fighting (Portis) than I would. I'm not sure I understand his view, but unless he is currently fighting dogs, he has done nothing wrong other than say stupid words. I view horse racing as majestic animals running and excitement. Others may view it as animals being mercilessly drugged so we can bet and having many (in their point of view) snap their legs in their drug laden eforts. The truth on horse racing is somewhere in the middle most likely. The same with this dog fighting issue. I agree with PIllow, in the overall scheme of life, alcohol is a much bigger threat to society than these people fighting dogs. Should it happen?? Of course not...but lots of things shouldn't happen in this world that do...and on the large scale, I'm not sure dog fighting is high on the list of things that shouldn't happen that we should try to stop...it should certainly be on the list, but lot's more things have priority over that.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I'm just defending him. What did he do?? A point I was trying to make is that there are those who would consider horse racing as barbaric and cruel as dog fighting. Do I agree with that?? No I don't, but I can understand the point of view those who view horse racing like that are coming from. Someone growing up in poor, rural Mississippi, would most likely have a different point of view on dog fighting (Portis) than I would. I'm not sure I understand his view, but unless he is currently fighting dogs, he has done nothing wrong other than say stupid words. I view horse racing as majestic animals running and excitement. Others may view it as animals being mercilessly drugged so we can bet and having many (in their point of view) snap their legs in their drug laden eforts. The truth on horse racing is somewhere in the middle most likely. The same with this dog fighting issue. I agree with PIllow, in the overall scheme of life, alcohol is a much bigger threat to society than these people fighting dogs. Should it happen?? Of course not...but lots of things shouldn't happen in this world that do...and on the large scale, I'm not sure dog fighting is high on the list of things that shouldn't happen that we should try to stop...it should certainly be on the list, but lot's more things have priority over that.

well obviously some things are more evil than others..but like they say, the lesser of two evils is still evil.

i'm amazed (but not terribly) at what people say when a microphone is put in front of them. it's like their iq level drops, and the blather begins.

no telling if vick was involved, if he was he should be punished appropriately by the powers that be. and if the nfl has rules regarding felony convictions, then he should face punishment by them as well. as for portis, i know he has already apologized for his statements...for what that's worth.