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Old 05-11-2007, 02:52 PM
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somerfrost somerfrost is offline
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Originally Posted by brianwspencer
If a biological mother gives her child up for adoption and a man and a woman adopt the child -- if those two break up, is it right for the female adoptive parent to hunt down the biological mother for financial support? Of course not, she is the mother, she is not the parent. People who become parents through adoption or sperm donation are taking on the responsibilities of parenting -- that very act relieves the biological mother or father of their parenting responsibilities. That's what sperm donors are for -- so that women can become pregnant without another man having claim on their child. So why does this donor's lack of anonyminity make this case somehow different from an anonymous donor?

They are the same thing. Biologically he is the father, but he is not the parent. Now that their relationship went to crap, this lady wants him to be posthumously financially the parent?

It's all about good faith. Somer, let's say you needed $10,000 to make sure your house wouldn't get foreclosed on. If I had lots of money, I'd certainly be willing to give that to you if you asked me to help save your house. Now if you turn around and use that money to hire a hitman to kill your neighbor, and then try to blame it on me and make me accept criminal responsibility for it because it was my money and I should have been responsible in giving it away -- well, it would sort of be as outlandish as this scenario.
Loaning someone money is hardly the same as creating a life...totally different situations. You state that a biological parent is "relieved of his/her responsibilities" when someone else assumes same...I disagree and this is where we think totally differently...we are responsible for our acts (free will, personal responsibility), nothing anyone else does can relieve us of this, this man is the biological father...this will always be so...no matter what others may do! I'll say it again, I am opposed to all means of artificial impregnation for this very reason (and others). I simply cannot comprehend why those who are so adamant about folks taking responsibility for their acts when it comes to crime or lifestyle deny responsibility for creating a life...
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Old 05-11-2007, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by somerfrost
Loaning someone money is hardly the same as creating a life...totally different situations. You state that a biological parent is "relieved of his/her responsibilities" when someone else assumes same...I disagree and this is where we think totally differently...we are responsible for our acts (free will, personal responsibility), nothing anyone else does can relieve us of this, this man is the biological father...this will always be so...no matter what others may do! I'll say it again, I am opposed to all means of artificial impregnation for this very reason (and others). I simply cannot comprehend why those who are so adamant about folks taking responsibility for their acts when it comes to crime or lifestyle deny responsibility for creating a life...
Well homosexuals or heterosexual couples with a sterile husband are in a bit of a pickle then as it seems you're advocating that homosexuals and heterosexual couples who are both not able to reproduce on their own should not have children -- and if they do (by whatever means) they will never truly be the parents because someone else will always be responsible for their kids on a biological basis.

Obviously my money comment is on another plane from the concept of a child, but the idea is the same. Someone says they want/need something from you for one reason (whether it be so they can have a child to love with their partner, or to save their house) and then turn around later and change their mind and try to make you responsible for what they've done with it (making you responsible for the child, or killing the neighbor). The personal responsibility here lies with the mothers, not with the biological father. If you disagree with that, so be it, but it certainly seems to border on denying the blessing of parenthood to homosexual or infertile couples.
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Old 05-11-2007, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by brianwspencer
Well homosexuals or heterosexual couples with a sterile husband are in a bit of a pickle then as it seems you're advocating that homosexuals and heterosexual couples who are both not able to reproduce on their own should not have children -- and if they do (by whatever means) they will never truly be the parents because someone else will always be responsible for their kids on a biological basis.

Obviously my money comment is on another plane from the concept of a child, but the idea is the same. Someone says they want/need something from you for one reason (whether it be so they can have a child to love with their partner, or to save their house) and then turn around later and change their mind and try to make you responsible for what they've done with it (making you responsible for the child, or killing the neighbor). The personal responsibility here lies with the mothers, not with the biological father. If you disagree with that, so be it, but it certainly seems to border on denying the blessing of parenthood to homosexual or infertile couples.

I cannot change biology...it is the natural order of things that it takes a man and a woman to conceive a child, I'm not denying gay or barren couples anything..it is the natural order. I know lots of women who have told me they wish a man could carry a child and deliver, I understand their point but I'm not able to change that!
I believe in adoption...I think it is an act of uncommon goodness and sacrifice to adopt and raise a child. There are millions of babies in Africa who have lost their parents, why not adopt one and save them from a life of unspeakable horror? If you adopt a child who has living biological parents however, you should do so with the realization that those parents have a continued responsibility toward that child. Legally you can work out a deal where they have no contact and/or legal responsibilities but the moral link will always exist. When I married my second wife, she had three small children...I raised them and was "dad" but I always accepted the fact that they had a biological father who I could never be...I raised them out of love for them and their mother not because I thought they belonged to me! It didn't make me love them any less...why should a barren or gay couple who adopt be any different? And...as I've said before, children are not a "right" they are a gift, I feel for anyone who wants a child and is unable to have one but that doesn't justify trampling over natural law for someone's perceived "right of ownership"!
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Old 05-11-2007, 04:37 PM
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Somer: Well....I guess that's what makes horse racing!
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Old 05-11-2007, 04:45 PM
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Somer: Well....I guess that's what makes horse racing!
Yep, and why not everyone thinks as I do that Buffy The Vampire Slayer was the greatest TV show ever...people have different opinions, different likes and dislikes. While I feel this is a huge issue, most folks here apparently think I'm just taking the opportunity to stand on the soapbox.
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Old 05-11-2007, 04:58 PM
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Yep, and why not everyone thinks as I do that Buffy The Vampire Slayer was the greatest TV show ever...people have different opinions, different likes and dislikes. While I feel this is a huge issue, most folks here apparently think I'm just taking the opportunity to stand on the soapbox.
Taking responsibility is the number one thing absent from this society,and the careless disregard of human life(at any stage). Right or Wrong,Somer, at least you make the effort....I'll give you that! BTW....LOTR...Return of the King is on TBS this weekend around 8pm. I'm going to fit it into my busy schedule
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Old 05-11-2007, 05:12 PM
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somerfrost somerfrost is offline
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Taking responsibility is the number one thing absent from this society,and the careless disregard of human life(at any stage). Right or Wrong,Somer, at least you make the effort....I'll give you that! BTW....LOTR...Return of the King is on TBS this weekend around 8pm. I'm going to fit it into my busy schedule

Good flick...I'm finishing up Hercules season 4 right now, maybe I'll watch it as well.
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