Pletcher ... Same Old Story

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I have a question for you guys. If you were a trainer, what would be more important to you? Winning the Kentucky Derby or being the leading trainer every year. Would you rather be a John Shirreffs or a Michale Matz, guys that do fairly well and have won a Derby? Or would you rather be a Todd Pletcher or Bobby Frankel, guys that win $20 million a year in purses but have never won a Derby?

Won a Derby.
End of story.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by philcski

Won a Derby.
End of story.

Same with jockeys too? You'd rather be Calvin Borel than Garret Gomez?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Same with jockeys too? You'd rather be Calvin Borel than Garret Gomez?

Calvin isn't exactly a slouch when it comes to purse money, so yes.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by philcski

Calvin isn't exactly a slouch when it comes to purse money, so yes.

To each his own. I would rather do great all the time rather than be mediocre most of the time and have one big moment.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

To each his own. I would rather do great all the time rather than be mediocre most of the time and have one big moment.

I wouldn't call Gomez's riding "great all the time." That's for sure...

Calvin is far from a mediocre jockey. Take away the woman problems he's had throughout his career and you could make a case that he's one of the top 20 jocks in the game.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Calvin is far from a mediocre jockey. Take away the woman problems he's had throughout his career and you could make a case that he's one of the top 20 jocks in the game.

If he's Top 20, that is certainly very good. But there is still a huge difference between being #20 and being #1.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

I wouldn't call Gomez's riding "great all the time." That's for sure...

He's the leading rider in the country for the second year in a row. If he's not a great rider, I'd like to know who is. He is doing great all the time. He's winning millions in purses every single month. I bet he doesn't have a single month where his mounts earn less than $1 million.

You guys are a tough crowd. You guys are very hard to please. Even being the best in the country is not good enough for you. I hope you're not that hard on yourself. If you got an "A" on a test, would you be upset if you got 98% but not 100%?

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

He's the leading rider in the country for the second year in a row. If he's not a great rider, I'd like to know who is. He is doing great all the time. He's winning millions in purses every single month. I bet he doesn't have a single month where his mounts earn less than $1 million.

You guys are a tough crowd. You guys are very hard to please. Even being the best in the country is not good enough for you. I hope you're not that hard on yourself. If you got an "A" on a test, would you be upset if you got 98% but not 100%?

Yes.

With that said, not knocking Gomez, but he has had his fair share of questionable rides.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

To each his own. I would rather do great all the time rather than be mediocre most of the time and have one big moment.

Would you rather be Jeter or A-Rod?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Would you rather be Jeter or A-Rod?

I used to be a huge baseball fan years ago but I'm really not any more. I know both of those guys are great players but I really don't know enough about their numbers to give an opinion. From what I do know, I would have to think that's it's a pretty close call.

I don't really think comparing those two guys is like comparing Pletcher to Shirreffs. Pletcher's horses are making over $20 million a year. Shireffs' horses probably make closer to $3 million a year. I think there is a much bigger gap between Pletcher and the other trainers than there is between Jeter and A-Rod.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Would you rather be Jeter or A-Rod?

Pujols

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by philcski

Won a Derby.
End of story.

I would rather never have a Derby starter and have a stable half as good as Pletcher/Frankel.

And I would rather be in Gomez's shoes on a bad day than Calvin's on a good one.

Originally Posted by moodwalker

I would rather never have a Derby starter and have a stable half as good as Pletcher/Frankel.

And I would rather be in Gomez's shoes on a bad day than Calvin's on a good one.

It's tough to choose between being in Gomez or Borel's shoes. One taste of the yay and Gomez is broke again. If you choose to be in Borel's shoes you get that Cajun drawl and love your mama a little more than most would.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

I would rather never have a Derby starter and have a stable half as good as Pletcher/Frankel.

And I would rather be in Gomez's shoes on a bad day than Calvin's on a good one.

I agree 100%.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

I would rather never have a Derby starter and have a stable half as good as Pletcher/Frankel.

And I would rather be in Gomez's shoes on a bad day than Calvin's on a good one.

And run 6th, 8th, 9th, 16th, and 20th? No thanks.

Why?? Money isn't everything. The guy was one of the leading riders in Kentucky, and has been for quite a while. He does QUITE well for himself. He also has something that Gomez (and all other jockeys) would kill for, a win in the Kentucky Derby.

Ask John Velazquez whether he'd rather have his riding title from Saratoga or a win in the Kentucky Derby, and I guarantee the answer would be the Derby.

[Danzig]

i bet pletcher would give up a lot of those millions and riding titles to have derby win next to his name. history is kind to those who win the big ones. and as the years go by, the pressure will only mount.
is it fair? maybe not. but it's the way it is. even those who know nothing, care nothing, about horse racing have heard of the derby. it's the race. and the longer todd goes without, the more he'll want it. those who win all, set records, have legions of fans, admit that the big one is the one that means the most. the superbowl for football, the world series, the daytona 500, and the kentucky derby....

[timmgirvan]

and the July 4th Nathans World Championship Hot Dog eating Contest

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

If he's Top 20, that is certainly very good. But there is still a huge difference between being #20 and being #1.

I remember when Gomez was riding at Sunland Park a few years ago---right before he went to jail infact---his dominance for the short time he was there was off-the-charts.

He was by far the most underrated jockey in Southern California earlier this decade...when he always struggled to make the top 10...and people would argue with you that Jose Valdiva is "far better" than him.

I haven't seen any improvement in his riding throughout this decade....funny what happens when you consistantly get better stock. Going into 2005, VERY few people would have rated him a top 20 jockey.

[mark2061mn]

Yeh, looking at Pletchers stakes wins below, I'd rather be John Sheriff's too!!!!!!!

Horse Stake Grade Year Photo
A.P. Arrow Skip Away H. III 2007
Adieu Frizette S. I 2005
Adieu Delaware Oaks II 2006
Adieu Spinaway S. II 2005
Adieu Astoria S. 2005
Airy Hill Storm Cat S. 2000
Alke Deputy Minister H. III 2004
American Century Bahamas S. L 2001
Any Given Saturday Sam F. Davis 2007
Appleby Gardens Shady Well S. 2002
Archers Bay Prince of Wales S. Can-I 1998
Archers Bay Queen's Plate S. Can-I 1998
Ashado Beldame S. I 2005
Ashado Breeders' Cup Distaff I 2004
Ashado Coaching Club American Oaks I 2004
Ashado Go For Wand H. I 2005
Ashado Kentucky Oaks I 2004
Ashado Ogden Phipps H. I 2005
Ashado Spinaway S. I 2003
Ashado Cotillion H. II 2004
Ashado Demoiselle S. II 2003
Ashado Fair Grounds Oaks II 2004
Ashado Schuylerville S. II 2003
Audacious Chloe Appalachian S. 2007
Audacious Chloe Gaily Gaily S. 2007
Audacious Chloe Junior Champion S. 2006
Balto Star United Nations H. I 2003
Balto Star Arkansas Derby II 2001
Balto Star Meadowlands BC S. II 2004
Balto Star Spiral S. II 2001
Balto Star W.L. McKnight H. II 2003
Balto Star Red Smith H. III 2003
Balto Star Whirlaway H. III 2003
Bandini Blue Grass S. I 2005
Bandini Skip Away H. III 2006
Beebe Lake Soft Parade S. 2004
Bella Shambrock Prairie Gold Juvenile S. 2006
Bella Shambrock Tyro S. 2006
Bensonhurst Bull Comet S. 1998
Bishop Court Hill Carter H. I 2006
Bishop Court Hill Gravesend H. III 2006
Bishop Court Hill Paumonok H. 2006
Bluegrass Cat Haskell Invitational I 2006
Bluegrass Cat Remsen S. II 2005
Bluegrass Cat Nashua S. III 2005
Bluegrass Cat Sam F. Davis S. 2006
Bohemian Lady Cicada S. III 2004
Bohemian Lady Affectionately H. 2006
Bohemian Lady Rare Treat H. 2006
Boston Bull Cowdin S. III 2002
Bovell Road Colleen S. 2006
Bronze Autumn OBS Champion S. (Fillies) 2002
Buzz Song Blue Hen S. 2004
Capeside Lady Molly Pitcher BC H. II 2005
Capeside Lady Monmouth BC Oaks II 2004
Capeside Lady Joseph A. Gimma (NYB) 2003
Capeside Lady Little Silver S. 2004
Capeside Lady Maid of the Mist S. (NYB) 2003
Capeside Lady Monmouth Beach S. 2005
Capozzene Junior Champion S. 2005
Carib Lady (Ire) Gallorette H. III 2003
Carminooch Gander S. (NYB) 2005
Carminooch Ave's Flag S. (NYB) R 2006
Cassydora (GB) Hillsborough S. III 2007
Cassydora (GB) Endeavour BC S. 2007
Chapel Royal Sanford S. II 2003
Chapel Royal Flash S. III 2003
Chimichurri Tempted S. III 2002
Chimichurri Jersey Jumper S. 2002
Cinderella's Dream Maid of the Mist S. (NYB) 2005
Circle of Life Spinaway S. I 1999
Circular Quay Hopeful S. I 2006
Circular Quay Louisiana Derby II 2007
Circular Quay Bashford Manor S. III 2006
Coast Line John B. Campbell H. 2005
Coin Silver Lexington S. II 2005
Collymore Hall NATC Sorority S. 2002
Colony Band Doubledogdare S. 2005
Cotton Blossom Schuylerville S. III 2006
Cotton Blossom Florida Oaks 2007
Cotton House Bay Valley Stream S. L 1997
Cowgirls Dont Cry Anna M. Fischer Debutante S. 2006
Cowtown Cat Illinois Derby II 2007
Cowtown Cat Gotham S. III 2007
Dancal Violet H. III 2003
Deeliteful Irving Pan American H. II 2002
Deeliteful Irving Franklin S. 2001
Deputy Storm Tyro S. 2003
Distilled Illinois Derby II 2001
Dubleo Generous S. III 2004
Dubleo Summer S. Can-II 2004
Dubleo Chenery S. 2004
Dubleo Continental Mile S. 2004
Dubleo Dave Feldman S. 2005
Dustin's Dream Carver Ranches H. 1997
Dyna's Destiny Bedanken S. 2006
Dyna's Destiny Gaily Gaily S. 2006
Early Warning Discovery H. III 1998
Early Warning Gallant Fox H. III 1999
Early Warning Queens County H. III 1999
East of Easy Mecke S. L 1997
Ebony Rose Hilltop BC S. 2006
Electric Shock Maid of the Mist S. (NYB) 1998
English Channel Turf Classic Invitational I 2006
English Channel United Nations S. I 2006
English Channel Woodford Reserve Turf Classic S. I 2006
English Channel Virginia Derby III 2005
English Channel Canadian Turf H. 2006
English Channel Colonial Turf Cup S. 2005
English Channel Woodlawn S. 2005
Essence Anne Arundel S. III 2004
Ever Elusive Winning Colors S. 2006
Exclusive Quality Spectacular Bid S. 2006
Fairbanks Tokyo City H. III 2007
Finality Jamaica H. II 2002
Finality West Point H. (NYB) 2003
First Spear Budweiser Challenge S. L 2001
First Spear Lamplighter H. 2001
Fisher Pond Lawrence Realization H. 2002
Flamenco Cowdin S. 2004
Flamenco Victoria S. 2004
Flamenco Jack Price Juvenile S. R 2004
Fleet Indian Beldame S. I 2006
Fleet Indian Personal Ensign H. I 2006
Fleet Indian Delaware H. II 2006
Fleet Indian Next Move H. III 2006
Fleet Indian Sixty Sails H. III 2006
Fleet Indian Obeah H. 2006
Flower Alley Travers S. I 2005
Flower Alley Jim Dandy S. II 2005
Flower Alley Lane's End S. II 2005
Flower Alley Salvatore Mile H. III 2006
Forest Code Giant's Causeway S. 2007
Forest Danger Carter H. I 2005
Forest Danger Bay Shore S. III 2004
Forest Grove Ocean Place Resort S. 2004
Forest Grove Paterson S. 2004
Forestier Classy Mirage S. 2005
Freedom's Daughter Schuylerville S. II 2002
Frenchglen Jersey Girl S. R 2004
Friendly Island Maryland BC Sprint H. III 2006
Friendly Island Hudson H. (NYB) 2005
Friendly Island Hudson H. (NYB) 2004
Gadir Comet S. L 1999
Glacken's Mark Irish Sonnet S. 2006
Glacken's Mark White Clay Creek S. 2006
Go Deputy Sword Dancer Invitational I 2006
Go Deputy Bowling Green H. II 2006
Gone Fishin Jaipur H. III 2002
Graeme Hall Arkansas Derby II 2000
Graeme Hall Jim Dandy S. II 2000
Graeme Hall Stuyvesant H. III 2001
Graeme Hall Eclipse H. Can-II 2001
Half Ours Richter Scale BC Sprint Championship H. II 2007
Half Ours Three Chimneys Juvenile S. 2005
Harlan's Holiday Donn H. I 2003
Harlan's Holiday Pennsylvania Derby III 2002
Harmony Lodge Ballerina H. I 2003
Harmony Lodge Gallant Bloom H. II 2003
Harmony Lodge First Lady H. III 2003
Harmony Lodge First Lady H. III 2004
Harmony Lodge Shirley Jones H. III 2003
Harmony Lodge Little Silver S. 2001
Harmony Lodge Sweet Briar Too S. 2003
Heckle Tremont S. III 2003
High Cotton Rushaway S. 2006
High Cotton Sir Barton S. 2006
Honey Ryder Flower Bowl Invitational I 2006
Honey Ryder Orchid H. II 2005
Honey Ryder Sheepshead Bay H. II 2006
Honey Ryder Glens Falls H. III 2005
Honey Ryder Orchid H. III 2006
Honey Ryder Very One H. III 2005
Honey Ryder E.P. Taylor S. Can-I 2005
Honey Ryder Dick Memorial BC H. 2005
Honey Ryder Dick Memorial BC H. 2006
Honey Ryder Princess Mora S. 2004
Host (Chi) Shadwell Turf Mile S. I 2005
Host (Chi) Knickerbocker H. II 2004
Host (Chi) Tropical Turf H. III 2004
Hunter Cruise Continental Mile S. 2001
Icy Atlantic Arcadia H. II 2007
Icy Atlantic Jersey Derby III 2004
Icy Atlantic Battle Field S. 2006
I'm All Yours Ashley T. Cole H. (NYB) 2002
I'm All Yours Mohawk H. (NYB) 2001
I'm All Yours West Point H. (NYB) 2001
India Cotillion BC H. II 2006
India Azeri BC S. III 2007
India Without Feathers S. 2006
Indian Vale Falls City H. II 2005
Indian Vale Next Move H. III 2007
Indian Vale Turnback the Alarm H. III 2005
Irving's Baby Delaware H. III 2001
Irving's Baby MD Racing Media H. L 2002
Irving's Baby MD Racing Media H. L 2001
Isola Piu Bella (Chi) Sabin H. III 2005
Isola Piu Bella (Chi) Sixty Sails H. III 2005
Isola Piu Bella (Chi) Obeah H. 2005

Primary Photography: Barbara D. Livingston