Pletcher ... Same Old Story

[Rupert Pupkin]

By the way, I don't think there is anything that Pletcher could have done in 2006 or 2007 to win the Derby. I don't think he had a horse in 2006 that could have beaten Barbaro. I don't think he had a horse in 2007 that could have beaten Street Sense.

If Pletcher would have had a horse ready to run big on Derby day in 2005, he might have been able to win. It's not as if Giacomo was unbeatable. If Pletcher could have gotten Flower Alley to peak on Derby day, I don't see any reason why he couldn't have beaten Giacomo. I'm not saying that Pletcher did anything wrong in 2005. I'm simply saying that you could at least make an argument that 2005 was a year that Pletcher could have won the race if one of his horses ran big that day. But in 2006 and 2007, Pletcher did not have a horse that could have beaten Barbaro or Street Sense.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

By the way, I don't think there is anything that Pletcher could have done in 2006 or 2007 to win the Derby. I don't think he had a horse in 2006 that could have beaten Barbaro. I don't think he had a horse in 2007 that could have beaten Street Sense.

If Pletcher would have had a horse ready to run big on Derby day in 2005, he might have been able to win. It's not as if Giacomo was unbeatable. If Pletcher could have gotten Flower Alley to peak on Derby day, I don't see any reason why he couldn't have beaten Giacomo. I'm not saying that Pletcher did anything wrong in 2005. I'm simply saying that you could at least make an argument that 2005 was a year that Pletcher could have won the race if one of his horses ran big that day. But in 2006 and 2007, Pletcher did not have a horse that could have beaten Barbaro or Street Sense.

While you may be correct about this year, I believe that he had to have had at least ONE horse out of the 5 that could have at least hit the board. Street Sense was the best horse in the Derby, but he's also a horse for the course with CD. TP had to be disappointed knowing that he didn't even hit the board with one of his 5 starters.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

By the way, I don't think there is anything that Pletcher could have done in 2006 or 2007 to win the Derby. I don't think he had a horse in 2006 that could have beaten Barbaro. I don't think he had a horse in 2007 that could have beaten Street Sense.

If Pletcher would have had a horse ready to run big on Derby day in 2005, he might have been able to win. It's not as if Giacomo was unbeatable. If Pletcher could have gotten Flower Alley to peak on Derby day, I don't see any reason why he couldn't have beaten Giacomo. I'm not saying that Pletcher did anything wrong in 2005. I'm simply saying that you could at least make an argument that 2005 was a year that Pletcher could have won the race if one of his horses ran big that day. But in 2006 and 2007, Pletcher did not have a horse that could have beaten Barbaro or Street Sense.

No one's saying he should've beaten Street Sense.. But with five horses, you probably should run better than sixth..

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

No one's saying he should've beaten Street Sense.. But with five horses, you probably should run better than sixth..

I agree with you there. His horses certainly did not perform well. But even if one of his horses did hit the board, I think you guys would still be giving him just as hard of a time.

The main criticism I have been hearing here is that he didn't win. I don't think that criticism is fair because I don't think he could have won. If you want to criticize him for not having a single horse run well, then that is a fair criticism.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I agree with you there. His horses certainly did not perform well. But even if one of his horses did hit the board, I think you guys would still be giving him just as hard of a time.

The main criticism I have been hearing here is that he didn't win. I don't think that criticism is fair because I don't think he could have won. If you want to criticize him for not having a single horse run well, then that is a fair criticism.

My criticism is that he did no better than sixth. Had he run third and/or fourth, I would not have created this thread.

[Rupert Pupkin]

I have a question for you guys. If you were a trainer, what would be more important to you? Winning the Kentucky Derby or being the leading trainer every year. Would you rather be a John Shirreffs or a Michale Matz, guys that do fairly well and have won a Derby? Or would you rather be a Todd Pletcher or Bobby Frankel, guys that win $20 million a year in purses but have never won a Derby?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I have a question for you guys. If you were a trainer, what would be more important to you? Winning the Kentucky Derby or being the leading trainer every year. Would you rather be a John Shirreffs or a Michale Matz, guys that do fairly well and have won a Derby? Or would you rather be a Todd Pletcher or Bobby Frankel, guys that win $20 million a year in purses but have never won a Derby?

Won a Derby.
End of story.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by philcski

Won a Derby.
End of story.

Same with jockeys too? You'd rather be Calvin Borel than Garret Gomez?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Same with jockeys too? You'd rather be Calvin Borel than Garret Gomez?

Calvin isn't exactly a slouch when it comes to purse money, so yes.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by philcski

Won a Derby.
End of story.

I would rather never have a Derby starter and have a stable half as good as Pletcher/Frankel.

And I would rather be in Gomez's shoes on a bad day than Calvin's on a good one.

Originally Posted by moodwalker

I would rather never have a Derby starter and have a stable half as good as Pletcher/Frankel.

And I would rather be in Gomez's shoes on a bad day than Calvin's on a good one.

It's tough to choose between being in Gomez or Borel's shoes. One taste of the yay and Gomez is broke again. If you choose to be in Borel's shoes you get that Cajun drawl and love your mama a little more than most would.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

I would rather never have a Derby starter and have a stable half as good as Pletcher/Frankel.

And I would rather be in Gomez's shoes on a bad day than Calvin's on a good one.

I agree 100%.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

I would rather never have a Derby starter and have a stable half as good as Pletcher/Frankel.

And I would rather be in Gomez's shoes on a bad day than Calvin's on a good one.

And run 6th, 8th, 9th, 16th, and 20th? No thanks.

Why?? Money isn't everything. The guy was one of the leading riders in Kentucky, and has been for quite a while. He does QUITE well for himself. He also has something that Gomez (and all other jockeys) would kill for, a win in the Kentucky Derby.

Ask John Velazquez whether he'd rather have his riding title from Saratoga or a win in the Kentucky Derby, and I guarantee the answer would be the Derby.