Joel

Originally Posted by Bogey

Oracle, you made a piss poor decision to attack Joel. Everyone knows that you have more knowledge than 99% of the posters, me included. When someone has equal or more knowledge than you it turns ugly and you start getting personal. This all started when Joel pointed out and gave Scatmandu is his debut. He said something to the effect that there is no way he gets beat. He gave inside information that the colt outperformed another talented colt in the mornings. You came back and stated that he might have a difficult time from the 1 post. Joel stated without probably knowing anybody on the board that Scat could start from the #25 post and he would win. We all know the result and he could of won from the parking lot. He challenged you with his knowledge and beat you at your own game (with Inside Information -a nice filly by the way). This stuff you can't find on DRF or anywhere else. I usually don't post on the Paddock because people get personal and make comments hiding behind a keyboard. I once made a comment about Wonder Lady Anne, stating that she was a nice purchase for $8K and you where all over me about it. Although, I took it like you were kidding around. I was just making an observation and you took it personal. This message board is about opinions and opinions only. You have no reason to make personal comments about someone you've never even met. There are consequences for your actions and you really showed your true colors on that thread. I wish you continued success because I know you've put in the time and have the connections to be very successfull in this game, but you need to think about some of your tactics.

Good Racing Luck

Bogey with all due respect I disagree. Noone shouuld have an exemption from making a strong statement like a horse needs to run in claimers and will never win another graded stakes race and then not have to take **** over it when he or she is wrong. In private I have received quite a few attaboys for calling him on FC. He didnt have the balls to admit he goofed. Sorry Bogey, If I chose I could write long winded posts filled with proper grajmmar and multi-sylabic words which would convey exactly the same point as a little post will convey. I simply don't feel the need to on a message board.
Bottom line is that MEN own up to their words. If you talk smack and get proven wrong then you say I goofed, I've done it a thousand times and noone is above it.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Bogey with all due respect I disagree. Noone shouuld have an exemption from making a strong statement like a horse needs to run in claimers and will never win another graded stakes race and then not have to take **** over it when he or she is wrong. In private I have received quite a few attaboys for calling him on FC. He didnt have the balls to admit he goofed. Sorry Bogey, If I chose I could write long winded posts filled with proper grajmmar and multi-sylabic words which would convey exactly the same point as a little post will convey. I simply don't feel the need to on a message board.
Bottom line is that MEN own up to their words. If you talk smack and get proven wrong then you say I goofed, I've done it a thousand times and noone is above it.

Give it a rest. I am a Funny Cide fan, which I am pretty sure you aren't, and it isn't that big of a deal. It isn't like FC just won the BC Classic. I have seen you bashing some good jockeys on this board that came back and won some huge races, and I didn't see your apology. IT IS A CHAT SITE.

[Bogey]

Oralcle, I understand your response and agree with you about owning up when you are wrong. I made the mistake in '04 stating that Smarty Jones was overhyped and would get crushed in the Derby. I had to eat some serious crow for awhile, but I admitted I was dead wrong.

Originally Posted by Bogey

Oralcle, I understand your response and agree with you about owning up when you are wrong. I made the mistake in '04 stating that Smarty Jones was overhyped and would get crushed in the Derby. I had to eat some serious crow for awhile, but I admitted I was dead wrong.

Bogey you and I have no gripe, never have and doubt we ever will because I simply think you are a classy and intelligent guy. We have never spoken but everything I observe about you says gentleman. I even remember the WLA disagreement we have where I was confounded by your logic about yearling purchase prices relating to success later on, I didn't jump ugly on you at all, I just asked you how in the world you could love English Channel so much then as he was just a "lowly" purchase himself. You responded with a laugh and said he had heart and that was all that mattered. Then you agreed that perhaps that wasn't always a very big factor when looking at older horses and their form. It was a pleasant exchange and I've seen you, like myself, admit you were wrong and congratulate people who were right about a particular thing.
But even yesterday a certain someone took yet ANOTHER swipe at Dutrow implying that he is cheating. Some people on this board have horses with Rick and when you say that you are basically telling these people you think all their horses are hopped. I'm sorry, but its not going to go unchecked. Neither are half truths about ceratin classy leading trainers. Todd is an ambassador for the game. True story, GPK from this board loves English Channel and wrote an email to Todd earlier this year asking when he might run and all that. He got back a response in like 3 minutes that told GPK how he was working and where and when he may run. Hows that for class? Total stranger and fan emails him asking him for info on a horse and he actually takes the time to email him back and fill him in. If we had 1000 guys like Todd in this business we would be in a better place. Ripping him over an incident that may or MAY NOT have occurred as it was told isn't something I admire a whole lot. I try and show respect for everyone in this game. And anyone I have ever made offers for or worked with will tell you that.

[Bogey]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Bogey you and I have no gripe, never have and doubt we ever will because I simply think you are a classy and intelligent guy. We have never spoken but everything I observe about you says gentleman. I even remember the WLA disagreement we have where I was confounded by your logic about yearling purchase prices relating to success later on, I didn't jump ugly on you at all, I just asked you how in the world you could love English Channel so much then as he was just a "lowly" purchase himself. You responded with a laugh and said he had heart and that was all that mattered. Then you agreed that perhaps that wasn't always a very big factor when looking at older horses and their form. It was a pleasant exchange and I've seen you, like myself, admit you were wrong and congratulate people who were right about a particular thing.
But even yesterday a certain someone took yet ANOTHER swipe at Dutrow implying that he is cheating. Some people on this board have horses with Rick and when you say that you are basically telling these people you think all their horses are hopped. I'm sorry, but its not going to go unchecked. Neither are half truths about ceratin classy leading trainers. Todd is an ambassador for the game. True story, GPK from this board loves English Channel and wrote an email to Todd earlier this year asking when he might run and all that. He got back a response in like 3 minutes that told GPK how he was working and where and when he may run. Hows that for class? Total stranger and fan emails him asking him for info on a horse and he actually takes the time to email him back and fill him in. If we had 1000 guys like Todd in this business we would be in a better place. Ripping him over an incident that may or MAY NOT have occurred as it was told isn't something I admire a whole lot. I try and show respect for everyone in this game. And anyone I have ever made offers for or worked with will tell you that.

Oracle, I appreciate the kind words. I know Joel personally and he's a great guy. A true horseman in all sense of the word. He's got his opinions and I know he can back them up. There is nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree. Now, enough of all that, who do you like in the late double at Belmont today?

Originally Posted by Bogey

Oracle, I appreciate the kind words. I know Joel personally and he's a great guy. A true horseman in all sense of the word. He's got his opinions and I know he can back them up. There is nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree. Now, enough of all that, who do you like in the late double at Belmont today?

I like Joel as well he just doesnt realize it. I even thanked him for a thread he started yesterday that got me thinking in a different direction about the pik-4 at Cd. I owe him a dinner for that.
The late DD is a nightmare, looking at this Dwyer to me is like trying to decipher a foreign language, I simply have no clue at this point and doubt my opinion on the race will be much better later on!!! If I don't have an opinion now I doubt highly that I am going to have a very good one in a few hours.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by oracle80

True story, GPK from this board loves English Channel and wrote an email to Todd earlier this year asking when he might run and all that. He got back a response in like 3 minutes that told GPK how he was working and where and when he may run. Hows that for class? Total stranger and fan emails him asking him for info on a horse and he actually takes the time to email him back and fill him in. If we had 1000 guys like Todd in this business we would be in a better place. Ripping him over an incident that may or MAY NOT have occurred as it was told isn't something I admire a whole lot. I try and show respect for everyone in this game. And anyone I have ever made offers for or worked with will tell you that.

If you think Todd Pletcher actually wrote that email, I have some land that I have been trying to get rid of to sell you

Originally Posted by Scav

If you think Todd Pletcher actually wrote that email, I have some land that I have been trying to get rid of to sell you

Perhaps he didn't write it Scav but he damn well authorized it. If his asst wrote it I can assure you that before he gave out info on a horse in their barn to a total stranger that he cleared it with Todd. The speed upon which he received back a response tells me that Todd indeed wrote it.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Perhaps he didn't write it Scav but he damn well authorized it. If his asst wrote it I can assure you that before he gave out info on a horse in their barn to a total stranger that he cleared it with Todd. The speed upon which he received back a response tells me that Todd indeed wrote it.

He probably didn't write it, but it still is impressive and the sign of a barn that cares about racing fans. Even if his assistant or somebody wrote it, he set up a good barn. I don't know Pletcher but I was told he is a super organizer and I am sure he has something set up to respond to e-mails. Most trainers only respond to owners, so that e-mail says a lot of good about him.

Originally Posted by boldruler

He probably didn't write it, but it still is impressive and the sign of a barn that cares about racing fans. Even if his assistant or somebody wrote it, he set up a good barn. I don't know Pletcher but I was told he is a super organizer and I am sure he has something set up to respond to e-mails. Most trainers only respond to owners, so that e-mail says a lot of good about him.

Hes an amazing guy in my opinion. All those horses under management and they still rip off a high win % at all the locals involved.
Mike McCarthy oversees CD I believe, Anthony Sciametta at Monmouth, Seth benzel is in saratoga, Todds at belmont and visiting the other sites and I don't know who is at delaware. All operations purr like kittens and his win % at all four locales wheer he currently races is high. Many spreadout operations suffer outside of the homebase where the actual head trainer is, not Todds. Always dressed and presenting himself well and so are his assistants I'm sure at Todd's demand. Something he learned from Wayne. His horses are spotted properly and I never see an owner yank horses away from him, a sure sign that despite the numbers he manages to give everyone's horses proper care. Treats the press well despite what must be an incredibly straining number of interview and quote requests and a good family man. All this at age 38.
Quite frankly if you are in this business in any capacity Todd is the guy that you should most admire and want to emulate.

Originally Posted by Scav

If you think Todd Pletcher actually wrote that email, I have some land that I have been trying to get rid of to sell you

.....................................I agree..I've tried to contact him SEVERAL times by phone to no avail....I know he's a busy man and if he doesn't return calls I doubt he sits and dweebs around on the computer to return emails....Or let's say I'd be very surprised if he does...I'm not saying he's a bad person for it...I doubt I'd have the time to return every inquiry from a fan either if I were him because I'm sure he gets several emails and half of them are probably like "do you think Keted Entry will win tomorrow"..LOL...I love those emails..those are the greatest....

The man is a busy figure......

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

.....................................I agree..I've tried to contact him SEVERAL times by phone to no avail....I know he's a busy man and if he doesn't return calls I doubt he sits and dweebs around on the computer to return emails....Or let's say I'd be very surprised if he does...I'm not saying he's a bad person for it...I doubt I'd have the time to return every inquiry from a fan either if I were him because I'm sure he gets several emails and half of them are probably like "do you think Keted Entry will win tomorrow"..LOL...I love those emails..those are the greatest....

The man is a busy figure......

Maybe you should try his cell. Some people have that number.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Maybe you should try his cell. Some people have that number.

I've got it....remember, I get all contact info from the Racing Office...you think Doug Bredar doesn't have that number?...comon...

Todd is a solid trainer, but if he wasn't with the stock he puts his hand on then that would even be a bigger story IMO....he trains more blue-blood pedigrees than anyone who has ever taken out a trainers liscence and it has to be rather luxurious to slip a saddle on 1st string horses from the leading owners in the industry such as the Melnyks, the Coolmore guys, Padua, the Jones, Overbrook....what billionaires have I forgotten here?

I choose to believe that Asmussen is every bit the trainer that Todd is because he manages more numbers with success, yet he has had a lot of success developing horses into Grade I winners by his clients paying a drop ion the bucket at the auctions compared to what Pletchers clients pay....Steve's core owners only can pay $100-$200K for a horse as to where Pletcher gets $16 million horses....big difference....Steve has 1 Storm Cat in his barn, Todd has over 10....Steve has zero A.P. Indy's in his barn, Todd has about 10...

I guess my point is that if you allowed guys like Steve Asmussen and the Cole Normans of the world saddle the same stock that Todd saddles, there would be absolutely zero drop off in productiveity IMO...

Todd has a great luxury with the connections he has made in the game...his dad preps all of the babies at Ocala and is one of the more reknowned guys around that areas for years....Also, working for Lukas has helped his exposure to the big outfits....he has had politics on his side from day one in getting the top clients.....He is surely a great horseman...I'm just saying that it is easy for someone to come on here and say how good Jeef Gordon is when he is always driving the fastest car...

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Todd is a solid trainer, but if he wasn't with the stock he puts his hand on then that would even be a bigger story IMO....he trains more blue-blood pedigrees than anyone who has ever taken out a trainers liscence and it has to be rather luxurious to slip a saddle on 1st string horses from the leading owners in the industry such as the Melnyks, the Coolmore guys, Padua, the Jones, Overbrook....what billionaires have I forgotten here?

I choose to believe that Asmussen is every bit the trainer that Todd is because he manages more numbers with success, yet he has had a lot of success developing horses into Grade I winners by his clients paying a drop ion the bucket at the auctions compared to what Pletchers clients pay....Steve's core owners only can pay $100-$200K for a horse as to where Pletcher gets $16 million horses....big difference....Steve has 1 Storm Cat in his barn, Todd has over 10....Steve has zero A.P. Indy's in his barn, Todd has about 10...

I guess my point is that if you allowed guys like Steve Asmussen and the Cole Normans of the world saddle the same stock that Todd saddles, there would be absolutely zero drop off in productiveity IMO...

Todd has a great luxury with the connections he has made in the game...his dad preps all of the babies at Ocala and is one of the more reknowned guys around that areas for years....Also, working for Lukas has helped his exposure to the big outfits....he has had politics on his side from day one in getting the top clients.....He is surely a great horseman...I'm just saying that it is easy for someone to come on here and say how good Jeef Gordon is when he is always driving the fastest car...

English Channel sure didnt cost much and neither did the stakes winner today. Its not like he doesnt take moderately priced horses and win with them Joel. And Steve seems to appear to like the action of claiming and having a lot of horses. He said he was gonna cull the horses and focus on quality. To be honest with you Joel, the owners you speak of probably frown up on giving a lot of expensive horses(which I dont agree with, I think Steve is great) to a guy with that many claimers in his barn. AT some point if he wants those type he has to commit to thinning the herd, being less spread out, and maintaining a first string in NY.