Nobiz Like Showbiz

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by POINTGIVEN1985

i dont think they should even go to the derby with him, its a fact that he cant be nobiz or street sense he already had his chances vs both, i dont think he's better then a handful of others also, and after todays performance why go to the derby i'd give him time to regroup and point to the preakness.

I would love to bet you a serious amount of money that if both horses go Any Given Saturday finishes ahead of Tiago in the Derby.....and I am guessing I'm far from the only one.

[POINTGIVEN1985]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I would love to bet you a serious amount of money that if both horses go Any Given Saturday finishes ahead of Tiago in the Derby.....and I am guessing I'm far from the only one.

i would take that bet in a heartbeat.......
and its not all about today i have never liked any given saturday and i have liked tiago for a while and today's efforts by both only makes me feel stronger about my opinions

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I would love to bet you a serious amount of money that if both horses go Any Given Saturday finishes ahead of Tiago in the Derby.....and I am guessing I'm far from the only one.

Wow! Can we say "straw man" argument?

WHen Pt. Given made that comment about AGS skipping the derby, at first I thought "No, no." But after thinking about it (a whole 5 minutes) it isnt the craziest idea by any stretch. Much as I like AGS he just seems destined come up short. He'd be a great bet to hit the board in the derby, but I dont see him winning it. Sure he's better than probably 12 or 13 other horses in the derby, but would he be able to beat whoever is left running in the stretch on derby day?


Think back to his stretch battles vs. Tiz Wonderful and SS were great but isnt he, just the tinsiest bit hesistant when he eyeballs the other horse...?


I'll leave it at that. YOu guys have far more experience than, me in this.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by easy goer

Wow! Can we say "straw man" argument?

WHen Pt. Given made that comment about AGS skipping the derby, at first I thought "No, no." But after thinking about it (a whole 5 minutes) it isnt the craziest idea by any stretch. Much as I like AGS he just seems destined come up short. He'd be a great bet to hit the board in the derby, but I dont see him winning it. Sure he's better than probably 12 or 13 other horses in the derby, but would he be able to beat whoever is left running in the stretch on derby day?


Think back to his stretch battles vs. Tiz Wonderful and SS were great but isnt he, just the tinsiest bit hesistant when he eyeballs the other horse...?

I'll leave it at that. YOu guys have far more experience than, me in this.

Yes, but the point is... he was involved in those stretch battles. He's THERE. A horse like Tiago will typically be there to run past the tiring horses (like Giacomo.) Just my take on it.

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Yes, but the point is... he was involved in those stretch battles. He's THERE. A horse like Tiago will typically be there to run past the tiring horses (like Giacomo.) Just my take on it.

Yeah I know. He's (AGS) game for sure, and yesterday doesnt really change that. But it's not insane to say that he might be better by skipping.

As for Tiago yeah, AGS far more likelier to hit the board. Just because AGS gets a better result doesnt mean passing the race is a bad idea.

[Merlinsky]

When the race first started my reaction was 'crap, he's being rank.' Tagg seemed happy with the ride and said as much but Bailey was critical of Cornelio for more than one trip on the horse. Does anybody agree with that assessment or is the horse just harder than Bailey's giving credit? I thought Tagg felt he was easier to train than Funny Cide but does that correlate into an easier horse to rate for the jockey necessarily? I figured you can't just say it was the blinkers if Cornelio's had problems in the past but I didn't register them so was Jerry seeing phantoms bad-rides?

Honestly I can't ever quite get away from this horse just because I'm sentimentally happy for Albert the Great and he's one of those that can really use it and isn't expected to've gotten one like this. There are a few sires this year I'm happy for in terms of getting a big runner. I loved Barbaro by himself early last spring but right after his Derby win and I said "yay Barbaro!" my next impulse was 'yay Dynaformer!" It doesn't rule my picks but it adds to the enjoyment of them.

About Corinthian really quick, the action sounds like he's the typical headcase I've heard him to be but maybe it's more of an involuntary reaction on the assistant starter's part. Think about it, you're trying to keep a horse from spazzing and not let him go up but if he does it at the moment the doors open you're trying to turn him loose partly but some muscle memory says 'he's screwing around, hold' and you have to consciously let go...all this happens of course within a split second and not like you have time to think that whole thing in your head but I just mean it's instinctive to not let a rearing horse just bug out. Hypothesizing, sorry.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

When the race first started my reaction was 'crap, he's being rank.' Tagg seemed happy with the ride and said as much but Bailey was critical of Cornelio for more than one trip on the horse. Does anybody agree with that assessment or is the horse just harder than Bailey's giving credit? I thought Tagg felt he was easier to train than Funny Cide but does that correlate into an easier horse to rate for the jockey necessarily?

Honestly I can't ever quite get away from this horse just because I'm sentimentally happy for Albert the Great. There are a few sires this year I'm happy for in terms of getting a big runner. I loved Barbaro by himself early last spring but right after his Derby win and I said "yay Barbaro!" my next impulse was 'yay Dynaformer!" It doesn't rule my picks but it adds to the enjoyment of them.

About Corinthian really quick, the action sounds like he's the typical headcase I've heard him to be but maybe it's more of an involuntary reaction on the assistant starter's part. Think about it, you're trying to keep a horse from spazzing and not let him go up but if he does it at the moment the doors open you're trying to turn him loose partly but some muscle memory says 'he's screwing around, hold' and you have to consciously let go...all this happens of course within a split second and not like you have time to think that whole thing in your head but I just mean it's instinctive to not let a rearing horse just bug out. Hypothesizing, sorry.

I thought the same thing. I just find it hard to believe that this colt is going to win the derby... while he looked more professional in the stretch, derby day is a whole 'nother ball game.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

When the race first started my reaction was 'crap, he's being rank.' Tagg seemed happy with the ride and said as much but Bailey was critical of Cornelio for more than one trip on the horse. Does anybody agree with that assessment or is the horse just harder than Bailey's giving credit? I thought Tagg felt he was easier to train than Funny Cide but does that correlate into an easier horse to rate for the jockey necessarily? I figured you can't just say it was the blinkers if Cornelio's had problems in the past but I didn't register them so was Jerry seeing phantoms bad-rides?

As usual I think Bailey had it right. To me he wasn't so much saying that Corny doing something wrong, after all he won the race. I thought he was just pointing out that that same performance in the derby will not cut it and I agree. Like Bailey said, Corny has to find a way to get the horse to relax in the Derby, a tall order I think. If on derby day he has to strongly restrain him
for a mile, what do you think he will have left in the stretch?

I also am drawn to the horse, having liked his sire. He is such a nice looking colt and talented from the getgo. Problem is he has run at that same level six times now.

[outofthebox]

I thought the horse was a little headstrong, but not rank at all. At least Corn wasnt bouncing in the saddle or making the horse toss his head. He kept one hold of him and even got him to relax down the bs and dropped about 3/4 lengths back without giving up his spot on the rail. I credit his ride. Lets face it, weve seen other jocks take to much hold, then lose their position and it eventulally costs them the race. My overall opinion of this horse is that he hasnt improved one bit since his two year old year. He is game, he fights and shows up everytime, i give him credit for that. But im looking for just a little more from him, and so far havent seen it..

[byalip]

Originally Posted by outofthebox

I thought the horse was a little headstrong, but not rank at all. At least Corn wasnt bouncing in the saddle or making the horse toss his head. He kept one hold of him and even got him to relax down the bs and dropped about 3/4 lengths back without giving up his spot on the rail. I credit his ride. Lets face it, weve seen other jocks take to much hold, then lose their position and it eventulally costs them the race. My overall opinion of this horse is that he hasnt improved one bit since his two year old year. He is game, he fights and shows up everytime, i give him credit for that. But im looking for just a little more from him, and so far havent seen it..

The discussion brings back memories of War Emblem and his headstrong troubles. When he didn't get his own way he quit. It looked lik Biz deferred to CV when he wrangled him off the lead on the backstretch. Tagg's got his work set out to develop Biz into a presser....maybe it'll work out.

[johnny pinwheel]

maybe, but i wouldn't hold my breath.i liked nobiz saturday, wouldn't bet him at 3-5 to win but the exacta was nice. i wouldn't bet any horse (AGS) that hides out in tampa. street sense is different because he used tampa as a race to come back in. after seeing how chilokee ran in the florida derby ,sightseeing was an absolute ridiculous overlay. the fact that nobiz ran headstrong saturday tells me hes in big trouble going 1 1/4, 4 weeks from now unless he can relax. especially if theres the usual bunch of horses that have no shot and go 46 or under to the half, if nobiz gets sucked into that well ,rip up those chalky tickets. its one reason i'm glad he won saturday because the week before the derby he'll be the best thing since sliced bread. the other thing is aqueduct seems to be his favorite place, can he carry his form to another surface? i havn't seen it yet. favorites and the derby, well its not a good prospect.