Problems are brewing...

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i disagree with his contention that a jockey is an employee. who employs him? isn't he a contractor, and self-employed?
but if they can 'prove' that jockeys are employees, then someone else has to pay all the workmens comp ins. and then an injured jock would be covered by that, and there goes the need for the disabled jockey fund.

Well, if they are employees then they have no rights whatsoever to advertising dollars they may receive. This, of course, gets to the heart of the matter, which is that they want things both ways. They want the benefits of being a private contractor and the benefits of being an employee.

Benefits only.

[randallscott35]

And a weight break, don't forget that.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Well, if they are employees then they have no rights whatsoever to advertising dollars they may receive. This, of course, gets to the heart of the matter, which is that they want things both ways. They want the benefits of being a private contractor and the benefits of being an employee.

Benefits only.

But do not pro football players and such get to make commercials endorsing products for a fee? I do believe they are employees of the owner of the football team they play for.
A solution I think would be to just put all jockeys under contract for owners like they do in Europe( where by the way standard losing jock mount no matter the purse is no less than 100.00) , then the owners could mandate what they can and cant do and they would be insured and protected.
Sure the owner without alot of money and good horses would get the bottum rung riders but then again they would only have to insure 1 or 2 jocks and they would be their employees. Racing is very diffirent from any other industry and its hard to find solutions when everyone has a "we against them" attitude , I do agree that the jockeys approach the horseman in a combative way and until they adjust their attitude it is most likely the jocks wont get any help at all.
Racetracks and horseman do have an obligation to make sure that riders have the help they need when they get in accidents on horseback otherwise they open themselves up to lawsuits and to be honest I wouldnt step a foot into the stirrup unless I knew I would be covered by accident insurance.
There are still racetracks that dont mandate the trainers have workmans comp. and how they get away with this I have know idea.

[blackthroatedwind]

The jockeys are also free to appear in advertisements. I am talking about them wearing advertisements during races.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The jockeys are also free to appear in advertisements. I am talking about them wearing advertisements during races.

I understand that but , racetracks and owners and stallion farms can use jockeys images to promote and sell whatever they want , jockeys get no compensation for this , its called madia rights and it is what the jockeys sign away every year to get on track accident insurance from racetracks. They could solve this problem by removing the jockey from a horses back when they advertise a horse at stallion that just won the breeders cup or any other races they use to promote with ,just use a computer and remove the jocks image from on the horses back.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Honu

I understand that but , racetracks and owners and stallion farms can use jockeys images to promote and sell whatever they want , jockeys get no compensation for this , its called madia rights and it is what the jockeys sign away every year to get on track accident insurance from racetracks. They could solve this problem by removing the jockey from a horses back when they advertise a horse at stallion that just won the breeders cup or any other races they use to promote with ,just use a computer and remove the jocks image from on the horses back.

Or, those jockeys that are lucky enough to ride the kind of horses that appear in breeder's ads could simply refuse to ride these horses.

The jockeys have a preposterous sense of entitlement in a game where they are close to the only involved parties making any money.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Or, those jockeys that are lucky enough to ride the kind of horses that appear in breeder's ads could simply refuse to ride these horses.

The jockeys have a preposterous sense of entitlement in a game where they are close to the only involved parties making any money.

You call 35 % off the top of someones paycheck and another 2o% to the government "only ones making money". How about when a persons horse flips over backwards and busts the tree in your 400.00 saddle and you foot the bill for a new one. We can hash this out all day , I will never change my mind that racetracks and horseman have an obligation to provide riders with unlimited accident insurance while on the job.

[blackthroatedwind]

What " jockeys " are giving 35% of their paychecks to whom ( and you can't mean their agents because that is part of the cost of doing business....and they get 25-30% anyway ). As for the taxes they pay to the government....we all pay those so spare me that cost.

[randallscott35]

Maybe Morty can wear advertisements....you know, for Nodoz.

[whodey17]

Universal Health Care Coverage would fix this problem. I can really see both sides here but who would employ the jocks? Would they be state employees? Employees of the owners. Employees of the trainers? If they were employeed by either of these people then they cannot choose who they ride and when. It would be a logistic mess. The racing industry really needs to come together as a group and work as a group. The sport is so seperated and that is the biggest part of the problem in my mind.

[citycat]

You have got to be joking if you think the "fair" thing to do is to have the owners foot the bill. We are definitely not the ones making the money. The last study I ready indicated that only 7% of owners even made money. To me jockeys are independent contractors, it is not the owners fault they get swindeled by the guild. The jockeys have to accept some responsibility here.

To say that its ok for the owners with lower caliber horses get the lower jockeys.......preposterious

[Honu]

Originally Posted by citycat

You have got to be joking if you think the "fair" thing to do is to have the owners foot the bill. We are definitely not the ones making the money. The last study I ready indicated that only 7% of owners even made money. To me jockeys are independent contractors, it is not the owners fault they get swindeled by the guild. The jockeys have to accept some responsibility here.

To say that its ok for the owners with lower caliber horses get the lower jockeys.......preposterious

But what about the jocks who are not in the Guild who are getting the shaft because everyone thinks the Guild speaks for all riders? I rode races for 13 years and was never in the Guild , got called a scab and was shunned by my fellow riders when I chose to ride in 1991 when they all went on strike. I didnt say the owners should foot the bill , I just presented a solution to the problem , and by the way most trainers foot the bill for workmans comp. if they choose to pass that on to their owners , well then that is their choice.
Tony Black in Pa. tried to form a Union for jockeys that didnt want to be in the Guild and he found that there wasnt one Teamsters Union that would accept them. You know it gets kinda old that people think that jocks should just ride for the fun of it , that when they get hurt thru no fault of their own well that is just tough luck , and they should pay to heal themselves . True this game wouldnt go on without the owners but the same can be said for the men and women who risk life and limb everyday .Yes nobody is forced to ride races , but people would sure have a hard time betting on horses who just ran around the track freely.

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by Honu

But do not pro football players and such get to make commercials endorsing products for a fee? I do believe they are employees of the owner of the football team they play for.
A solution I think would be to just put all jockeys under contract for owners like they do in Europe( where by the way standard losing jock mount no matter the purse is no less than 100.00) , then the owners could mandate what they can and cant do and they would be insured and protected.
Sure the owner without alot of money and good horses would get the bottum rung riders but then again they would only have to insure 1 or 2 jocks and they would be their employees. Racing is very diffirent from any other industry and its hard to find solutions when everyone has a "we against them" attitude , I do agree that the jockeys approach the horseman in a combative way and until they adjust their attitude it is most likely the jocks wont get any help at all.
Racetracks and horseman do have an obligation to make sure that riders have the help they need when they get in accidents on horseback otherwise they open themselves up to lawsuits and to be honest I wouldnt step a foot into the stirrup unless I knew I would be covered by accident insurance.
There are still racetracks that dont mandate the trainers have workmans comp. and how they get away with this I have know idea.

I tend to agree with this idea.We could make it like baseball.But I think it would have huge drawbacks.If they did it like baseball or football,and had a league minimum for pay,it would drive out all the small stables,period.The small guys would not be able to afford the jock.And the small stables would not be able to afford all the insurance,etc,that would probably be required under league rules.
The Big shot jocks would still get all the good mounts,and the shitty jocks would still get the shitty mounts.In this scenario,On the plus side, when Johnny V comes up for free agency when his contract with Pletcher expires,The owners could have one hell of a bidding war.They could do it at Keeneland,like a sale,and put it on ESPN,and all of us could bet on who is going to get him.We could wager on how big his new contract will be,etc,etc...Then,all the new jocks from McCarron's school could get drafted in the same way.They could ride at OBS first,so everyone could see their skills.This would also be the end of Jockey agents,so there is one less person they would have to pay,putting more money back in their pockets.The possibilities could be endless