Kidnapped British Soldiers

Well the world showed them. Iran certainly wont do anything outrageous again after the strong rebuke and all the sanctions coming down. And he was shaking the "guests" hands as they left, wishing them well... what a crock o' crud.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Well the world showed them. Iran certainly wont do anything outrageous again after the strong rebuke and all the sanctions coming down. And he was shaking the "guests" hands as they left, wishing them well... what a crock o' crud.

better them than me. god, what a freaking ....argh...i can't think of a good word. must be bedtime.

[sham]

I find it very alarming how fast the British sailors caved in this situation. Apparently they were captured without firing a shot in self defense, and then were on TV the next day giving a briefing apologizing for their shameful transgressions against poor Iran. I guess soldiering has changed since the days that I served in uniform. We were trained to give name, rank and serial number and that's all. Those of you that have served know what I'm talking about.

[SentToStud]

I rhink the Iranians come out way on top here. They could not care less about what the US or Britain think. They only care about how they're portrayed in Damascus, Amman, Beirut, Riyadh, Baghdad and TelAviv.

People in the U.S. don't really have a sense of history. The Iranians for years were seen by Britain as only a strategic area they sought to colonize for the sole purpose of serving as a midpoint and military base to protect the Empire's crown jewel -- India.

I don't care for Iranian politics but when I read comments made by Americans that the world will be better off when Tehran is blown to bits, I'm really disappointed. The media and population of the U.S. just has no sense of the history of the region, which is tremendously important in Arab culture.

It's simply unbelieveable that the American people believe instantly and fully that certain cultures/nations are pure enemies to be dealt with militarily simply because politicians say it's so.

Americans react to world news sort of the same way a cat jumps at the wall when you shine a flashlight on it. Move a light to another spot on the wall and the cat will jump there next.

Originally Posted by SentToStud

I don't care for Iranian politics but when I read comments made by Americans that the world will be better off when Tehran is blown to bits, I'm really disappointed. The media and population of the U.S. just has no sense of the history of the region, which is tremendously important in Arab culture.

Iran is a Persian country, not Arab. They will tell you there is a huge difference. This is a shaky regime. Iran has a whole bunch more in common with the West than many of the Arab countries. This is a country that could move away from a fanatical Islamic power base very quickly. Lots of the young intelligensia dont buy into many of the governments institutions. We would be stupid to try anything militarily with things so likely to swing on their own given the demographic dynamics of this country.

The dialogue with economic pressure is the best way. It is also in our interest to exchange students on a large scale like we used to with them. Especially those interested in politics. A lot of new ideas and ways of thinking used to be infused through student exchanges. This is part of the reason that they do have a significant portion of their population that has a pro-Western attitude... Democracy, rule of law, individual rights, etc...

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Iran is a Persian country, not Arab. They will tell you there is a huge difference. This is a shaky regime. Iran has a whole bunch more in common with the West than many of the Arab countries. This is a country that could move away from a fanatical Islamic power base very quickly. Lots of the young intelligensia dont buy into many of the governments institutions. We would be stupid to try anything militarily with things so likely to swing on their own given the demographic dynamics of this country.

The dialogue with economic pressure is the best way. It is also in our interest to exchange students on a large scale like we used to with them. Especially those interested in politics. A lot of new ideas and ways of thinking used to be infused through student exchanges. This is part of the reason that they do have a significant portion of their population that has a pro-Western attitude... Democracy, rule of law, individual rights, etc...

I think Iran USED to be as pro-west as you suggest. Not any longer. The British got greedy with how the ran the Anglo-Iranian Oil Corp., and this led directly to the nationalization of the Iranian oil industry.

Then the U.S. CIA and Britain ran a little covert op called Operation Ajax aimed to returning the Shah to power. It failed miserably and fueled Iranian anti-West sentiment. Eventually the Shah did return to power but of course only as a dictator/shill for the clerics. He didn't last long.

Then there was the the USS Vincennes shooting down of an Iranian flight over Iran airspace that killed 250 people. This event preceded the Hostage crisis by about six months.

Shaky regime? Yes, but there are reasons for the anti-West sentiment that pervades Iran. And not all of them are poorly formed.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

I think Iran USED to be as pro-west as you suggest. Not any longer. The British got greedy with how the ran the Anglo-Iranian Oil Corp., and this led directly to the nationalization of the Iranian oil industry.

Then the U.S. CIA and Britain ran a little covert op called Operation Ajax aimed to returning the Shah to power. It failed miserably and fueled Iranian anti-West sentiment. Eventually the Shah did return to power but of course only as a dictator/shill for the clerics. He didn't last long.

Then there was the the USS Vincennes shooting down of an Iranian flight over Iran airspace that killed 250 people. This event preceded the Hostage crisis by about six months.

Shaky regime? Yes, but there are reasons for the anti-West sentiment that pervades Iran. And not all of them are poorly formed.

there are pro-west elements in iran. but right now others are leading the parade. i can't help wondering tho, based on what irans prez (can't spell his name, not gonna try--yet i can pronounce it, go figure!) said the other day, that the possibility of more dialogue with the west is part of what got the hostages freed. i think he's interested-or maybe just pandering, so that he will get the pro-west folks in iran off his back. he said he wants relations with all countries-except israel of course.

[Mortimer]

I'm waiting for your impression of "It".

Originally Posted by mortimerdexterfoxworthy

I'm waiting for your impression of "It".

Morty you are like a young child that wanders into the middle of discussion drooling asking where your candy went. So what do you think about Iran Morton?

Originally Posted by SentToStud

I think Iran USED to be as pro-west as you suggest. Not any longer. The British got greedy with how the ran the Anglo-Iranian Oil Corp., and this led directly to the nationalization of the Iranian oil industry.

Then the U.S. CIA and Britain ran a little covert op called Operation Ajax aimed to returning the Shah to power. It failed miserably and fueled Iranian anti-West sentiment. Eventually the Shah did return to power but of course only as a dictator/shill for the clerics. He didn't last long.

Then there was the the USS Vincennes shooting down of an Iranian flight over Iran airspace that killed 250 people. This event preceded the Hostage crisis by about six months.

Shaky regime? Yes, but there are reasons for the anti-West sentiment that pervades Iran. And not all of them are poorly formed.

I think the anti-west sentiments involve perceived imperialism. I believe that a good percentage of younger folks believe in the rule of law, individual rights (women included), a democratic process... these are Western ideas based on Judeo-Christian beliefs. I happen to like them. I think others do also. Even without a long history involving this belief system.

[hi_im_god]

"People in the U.S. don't really have a sense of history"

history doesn't matter. we're an empire. we create new history. plus there's american idol when things don't look so good.

"I don't care for Iranian politics but when I read comments made by Americans that the world will be better off when Tehran is blown to bits, I'm really disappointed. The media and population of the U.S. just has no sense of the history of the region, which is tremendously important in Arab culture."

this is old europe thinking. you should join the new europe. that's poland so far as i can tell.

"It's simply unbelieveable that the American people believe instantly and fully that certain cultures/nations are pure enemies to be dealt with militarily simply because politicians say it's so."

i live here. trust me. the politician's got elected by homer simpson. it isn't that they are misleading the populace. it's that they can't get elected otherwise. you are way too optimistic.

"Americans react to world news sort of the same way a cat jumps at the wall when you shine a flashlight on it. Move a light to another spot on the wall and the cat will jump there next."

just wait until the next terrorist attack. we'll elect hitler.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

It is also in our interest to exchange students on a large scale like we used to with them.

You gonna send your kid to Iran for education?

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You gonna send your kid to Iran for education?

Not with the present situation. But if she was interested in the foreign service, like my Uncle, it might be a great opportunity if she was interested in this region. I hope you found a warm spot in Keeneland, it sounded like you were frigid.