Ravel, How good is he ?

[King Glorious]

I guess it's all irrelevant now.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I guess it's all irrelevant now.

We can try and guess how many more career starts he has. I'll go with 2.

[Cajungator26]

But guys...

He really has done enough.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

But guys...

He really has done enough.

If he wasn't Coolmore I'm sure Stonewall would stand him. I'd think Coolmore will bring him back to at least get a G2 on the resume before they tell us he's done enough.

[King Glorious]

The funny thing is that while I know people are being sarcastic when they say that a horse has done enough, I really feel like it's a true statement. I think u want to see that a horse has speed to win races, can develop fast enough to win early, and can win in graded company. Ravel has done all three. I don't think he's as good as some others but with his pedigree and what he's already done, what more is there really to prove?

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

The funny thing is that while I know people are being sarcastic when they say that a horse has done enough, I really feel like it's a true statement. I think u want to see that a horse has speed to win races, can develop fast enough to win early, and can win in graded company. Ravel has done all three. I don't think he's as good as some others but with his pedigree and what he's already done, what more is there really to prove?

How about the ability to run 4 races without having your legs break? Might that be an important trait to pass on to his progeny?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by miraja2

How about the ability to run 4 races without having your legs break? Might that be an important trait to pass on to his progeny?

It doesn't seem like these kinds of things matter anymore. Look at what they got for Smarty Jones after a nine race career that ended with injury. Afleet Alex' career ended with injury. People don't care anymore. They aren't looking to get a horse that will be able to withstand a 30+ race career anymore. Those are things of the past. If u can get a horse that can withstand an 8-10 race career, u've got something nowdays so soundness isn't really that important anymore. How else can u explain why anyone would breed to Unbridled's Song?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

The funny thing is that while I know people are being sarcastic when they say that a horse has done enough, I really feel like it's a true statement. I think u want to see that a horse has speed to win races, can develop fast enough to win early, and can win in graded company. Ravel has done all three. I don't think he's as good as some others but with his pedigree and what he's already done, what more is there really to prove?

Sadly that is what a great number of people believe today. The fact that the horse has accomplished almost nothing except win a couple of weak stakes and break down is almost not even a factor. That he MAY have been a really good horse is good enough. The lightly raced horse at stud used to be the exception. Now it is the almost the rule.

The biggest problem with this type of thinking is really not the fact that talented horses are not having long careers. It is that a lot of mediocre horses who fill the day to day cards have enough soundness issues to keep them from racing on a regular basis. When the backbone horses who need to run alot in order to fill the daily races and pay their owners bills can't do it then where do you turn? When you keep breeding flash in the pan stallions to 150 mares, then run a good % of them through 2 yo in training sales, what will be left?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Sadly that is what a great number of people believe today. The fact that the horse has accomplished almost nothing except win a couple of weak stakes and break down is almost not even a factor. That he MAY have been a really good horse is good enough. The lightly raced horse at stud used to be the exception. Now it is the almost the rule.

The biggest problem with this type of thinking is really not the fact that talented horses are not having long careers. It is that a lot of mediocre horses who fill the day to day cards have enough soundness issues to keep them from racing on a regular basis. When the backbone horses who need to run alot in order to fill the daily races and pay their owners bills can't do it then where do you turn? When you keep breeding flash in the pan stallions to 150 mares, then run a good % of them through 2 yo in training sales, what will be left?

Exactly. Another effect of all of this is that with so many of the top level horses leaving us so early, it creates a void at the top that has to be filled somehow. The horses that fill these voids then suddenly become looked at as top horses themselves. Take for example Eddington. Now, don't get me wrong. Eddington was always a talented horse. But he was always a couple of notches below the best. He finally got his grade one win in the 2005 Pimlico Special. Great for him. He was retired shortly thereafter. Was he really finally good enough to win a grade one? Or had enough of his competition been retired/sidelined/laying off to make the race weak enough for him to win it? The top 3yo's from his class (the previous year.....Smarty Jones, Birdstone, The Cliff's Edge, Lion Heart), were all retired. Rock Hard Ten was out with injury. Southern Image hadn't made it back yet from injury. Ghostzapper was out with injury. Saint Liam wasn't there. Roses in May wasn't there. Commentator wasn't there. All he was left to beat was Pollard's Vision and Presidentialaffair. Of course, it's not Eddington or his connections' fault that this is the way things turned out and they shouldn't feel bad for winning the race. But does anyone honestly believe that had several of those horses been in there, Eddington would have won? If he hadn't, would he still have been retired at that point? So lesser horses start winning this bigger races and people mistakenly start to look at them as top horses. Then all of a sudden, they are whisked away and the process is then repeated later........with even lesser horses.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

When the backbone horses who need to run alot in order to fill the daily races and pay their owners bills can't do it then where do you turn? When you keep breeding flash in the pan stallions to 150 mares, then run a good % of them through 2 yo in training sales, what will be left?

The offspring of 'second- and third-tier' stallions and horses from the regional breeding programs. And South America. It's already happening. Invasor and Lava Dude winning most of the top races for older horses last year. Brass Hat trashing the blood-blues every chance he got. Thor's Echo and Bordonaro. Kona Gold. Evening Attire. Say Florida Sandy. They have the kind of breeding that will keep the 'cheap' races going, when the expensive hot-house flowers wilt.

The trouble with the 'throw a load of top class mares at him and he's sure to sire something' is that when you get a good one, it can be VERY VERY good. So they keep doing it. But the wastage is enormous.

[King Glorious]

I do like racing. I don't think this stuff is good for racing. Never said that. Just said that from the perspective of the breeders, I can understand.

Originally Posted by merasmag

buh-bye...wish him well...how do u "start" to get a fracture???

I think it may be something like a stress fracture. But Im not a doctor..