Street Sense Number

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Jerry Bailey seemed really concerned Street Sense ran too hard.

People have lost their minds when it comes to training and racing thoroughbreds.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

People have lost their minds when it comes to training and racing thoroughbreds.

Now there is a qualified opinion. First start of the year, track record, and nobody here yet knows how he came out of the race. I didn't hear anyone talk about "he wouldn't have blown out a match" or "he was absolutely exhausted coming back" or anything of the like.

I think last year's # in the BC is irrelevant. Prediciting what kind of 3yo year this colt would have, based upon that #, without knowing anything about how he was coming back, seeing works, etc. is nothing more than a statistical prediction. Put whatever faith in the # you want to as far as I am concerned.

I think Bailey's supposed "concern" could be a valid one, but again, it's absent of all important info, facts and the like.

Eric

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ELA

Now there is a qualified opinion. First start of the year, track record, and nobody here yet knows how he came out of the race. I didn't hear anyone talk about "he wouldn't have blown out a match" or "he was absolutely exhausted coming back" or anything of the like.

I think last year's # in the BC is irrelevant. Prediciting what kind of 3yo year this colt would have, based upon that #, without knowing anything about how he was coming back, seeing works, etc. is nothing more than a statistical prediction. Put whatever faith in the # you want to as far as I am concerned.

I think Bailey's supposed "concern" could be a valid one, but again, it's absent of all important info, facts and the like.

Eric

The babying of horses, especially ones with immense talent, is such a negative I don't even know where to start. One trend that has been done away with for no good reason is starting a horse's season off with a sprint race. I have no idea why this has become a bad thing except for trainers/owners wanting to keep horses from losing. Of course after any losing race in the months of Jan thru April we get a steady dose of " we really dont need to win this...this is just a stepping stone...we dont want to kill him before the big day..." I dont know why I am so ornery tonight. Sorry.

[ELA]

I hear you Chuck, but doesn't all that play into people wanting a horse to "peak" so to speak? Maybe it's two sides of the same coin, or maybe it's BS, LOL.


Eric

[blackthroatedwind]

Whatever happened to good horses running fast? I guess that was before EPO.

[brianwspencer]

Well in an effort to help Randall out here, I will mention that on November 7th, after loving him going into the BC, I decided that Street Sense would be the horse to break the Juvenile/Derby jinx on my blog. Definitively.

So obviously I don't think he's "finished," and it seems nobody but Randall thinks he truly is. I was thrilled with his race today, to be honest. With only two preps, a dogfight in one doesn't seem like it's going to kill him, especially in his first race back.

It showed a side of him that I think was key to see at this point - that first off the layoff against a horse who many have ranked in their top 8, he dug in when he was tired and managed to pull out a win.

I couldn't be happier with today's race.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Whatever happened to good horses running fast? I guess that was before EPO.

You can't have good horses running a lot of fast races in a row or they are sure to bounce .
For example back in 1973 Lucien Lauren had some colt that ran huge in the Derby and Preakness. It was way too fast. I don't know whatever happened to him, but I am sure that he had bounced in his next start and probably lost.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Whatever happened to good horses running fast? I guess that was before EPO.

EPO is so 90's. It's like the stock market, by the time you hear about it, it is probably old news.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

EPO is so 90's. It's like the stock market, by the time you hear about it, it is probably old news.

Yes, but it was the beginning of the explosion of " not so good horses running fast for a start or two ".

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ELA

I hear you Chuck, but doesn't all that play into people wanting a horse to "peak" so to speak? Maybe it's two sides of the same coin, or maybe it's BS, LOL.


Eric

You cant get a horse to "peak" on a particular day. It's crap. Who in recent years "peaked" before the Derby and blew it? Trainers can not control how their horse matures and gets better or doesn't. As I said in another thread, they undertrain and race them and that is a leading cause of so many young, developing horses getting hurt. And if I had a really talented horse and tried to do it a different way, I'm sure that I would hear all the naysayers tell me how I was a Derby rookie and dont know what I'm doing. The pressure that Pletcher puts on the rest of the trainers is immense because so many of the dopes that own horses cant seem to understand that his methods work because of the horses not because of the methods. Of course he has won as many Derbies as the rest of us on this board.

[declansharbor]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You cant get a horse to "peak" on a particular day. It's crap. Who in recent years "peaked" before the Derby and blew it? Trainers can not control how their horse matures and gets better or doesn't. As I said in another thread, they undertrain and race them and that is a leading cause of so many young, developing horses getting hurt. And if I had a really talented horse and tried to do it a different way, I'm sure that I would hear all the naysayers tell me how I was a Derby rookie and dont know what I'm doing. The pressure that Pletcher puts on the rest of the trainers is immense because so many of the dopes that own horses cant seem to understand that his methods work because of the horses not because of the methods. Of course he has won as many Derbies as the rest of us on this board.

Would you say Bellamy Road ran too good of a race in the Wood to come back and duplicate that performance in the Derby? A horse that blew his engine too early to me was Brother derek..Just my opinion of course

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by declansharbor

Would you say Bellamy Road ran too good of a race in the Wood to come back and duplicate that performance in the Derby? A horse that blew his engine too early to me was Brother derek..Just my opinion of course

Maybe he did but how could you prevent that from happening?
Brother Derek had an easy road to the Derby. A bunch of paceless races in his own back yard against far from talented competition. Plus he got a pretty brutal trip in the Derby.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by declansharbor

Would you say Bellamy Road ran too good of a race in the Wood to come back and duplicate that performance in the Derby? A horse that blew his engine too early to me was Brother derek..Just my opinion of course

Bellamy Road was injured in that race I believe (made his next start in the travers and ran an excellent 2nd). He also finished 7th in the derby - which was very good considering he was injured and was pushing a fast pace, i believe closing argument was close to that pace also and was the only horse that outlasted bellamy road to the wire (from the pace).

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Would it be fair to say that Hansel "bounced" in the Derby after running two huge races within five weeks of the Derby (track record in the Jim Beam and winning the Lexington Stakes)?

I honestly dont remember but I did bet him in the Preakness but can't remember why.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Because he bounced in the Derby???????????

Maybe?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I like your point about starting a horse's three-year-old season in a sprint race. I follow Australian racing, and top tier horses usually start a "preparation" (series of races) at 6F or 7F. No reason it could not be done here.

It was done here for about a hundred years

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It was done here for about a hundred years

For a quality route horse where there are no "can he get the distance" questions, I love to see a sprint under his belt before stretching out. I have this theory that it helps to get the stride rate up, and is great to build fitness.

I'm not a trainer but it just seems logical.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

The practice of not running them in sprints to begin their Derby preparations is relatively new, isn't it (10 years)?

It used to be customary for Florida three-year-olds to run in the Hutcheson Stakes to begin the season.

I thought that the Hutch would have been a great spot for Street Sense

Gulfstream did not always have the same dates as they used to switch with Hialeah. The Bahamas at Hialeah was also a race that was used as a starting point for many top three year olds.

[PSH]

Street Sense looked pretty good to me. Am i missing something here? First time off a long layoff and probably will move forward by the time he hits the Ky Derby given that Carl is his trainer.

Anyway, it was a great horse race and i was impressed by both horses today. Right now they would have to be #1 and #1A for contenders for the Ky Derby.

I assume that both will be able to get the distance of 1 1/4 miles, although that is obviously unknown as it is for everyone else.

I also assume that any trainer would take either one of these to run in the Derby.

Only question is that in the Derby Calvin Borel might not have the luxury of running up the rail like he did the last two races and save all of that ground...

PSH

[cmorioles]

In the Thorograph ROTW, they actually predicted Curlin would bounce. First off, since he had one start, how the hell could they know how much potential this horse had?

Second, he had SIX WEEKS of rest. Exactly how long does a horse need to be off not to bounce? Three months? Six? A year? This crazy notion of "the bounce", which are nearly always just another convenient trainer excuse, are very bad for racing in general. It is a big part of why we have 5 horses stakes races all the time.