Kevin Durant: the comparisons

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He gets rebounds because he is seven feet tall plus he guards post players on D because he is not athletic enough to guard anyone else. I am not saying that he is not a great offensive player, because he is but he is not mobile, cant jump, and has no lateral movement. He is a great player because he can score period. Sure he is stronger than Durant now but he is 10 years older. Name one big man who came into Pro basketball with size and skills to match as a teenager? I can think of one. Moses Malone, and he was weak then compared to his later years when he bulked up.

Athletic is athletic is athletic. You have athletic skills regardless of your competition. I'm sure that Durant could outrun Dirk, out jump Dirk, out move him. By a signifigant margin. Love to watch him and I didn't judge Barnes on one game. I thought he let the Kansas game slip through his hands and I still cant figure out how you dont double team Acie Law at the end of the game.

He can guard 3's (the position, not the shot) better than any 7 footer in the league.

You have to have a reference point, come on. Durant is playing against kids that are not nearly as strong, as fast, have hops like the pros. I am sure Dirk, at this point, is MORE atheletic than Durant. Lateral movement, are you kidding. Thats how he rebounds so well out high. Dirk has fantastic lateral movement for a man his size. Avery has made him play defense.
Durant barely has muscles yet. And I must repeat, Durant is not a great athlete, he is a great NCAA basketball player. Muscles move bones. Bones move the body. I think we may be mixing coordination with athleticism. Durant is incredibly well coordinated for an 18 year old. But this is because he has lived in the gym since he was 12 years old. His mentor would not allow him to play in pick up games and drilled him on fundamentals and balance. In fact over the Winter break he went right back to the gym to be drilled by this same mentor. Durant is single minded... good thing he can play basketball so well, he is a horrible speaker.

You dont double Acie Law because he does what he just did against Louisville (at home, which I still cant figure out how a 6th seed gets two home games in the first two rounds) He finds the open man for wide open slashes, or 3's. And the 3 Law made was pure luck, he said so, he shot a knucle ball, it had zero rotation. Kirk is ATM's best 3 point shooter, thats who Barnes was worried about shooting.

And you nailed it with Moses Malone. I totally agree. He was a monster under the boards the minute he stepped on the the court.

Keep em coming. I reserve the right to ask you horsie questions so I can learn more.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

He can guard 3's (the position, not the shot) better than any 7 footer in the league.

You have to have a reference point, come on. Durant is playing against kids that are not nearly as strong, as fast, have hops like the pros. I am sure Dirk, at this point, is MORE atheletic than Durant. Lateral movement, are you kidding. Thats how he rebounds so well out high. Dirk has fantastic lateral movement for a man his size. Avery has made him play defense.
Durant barely has muscles yet. And I must repeat, Durant is not a great athlete, he is a great NCAA basketball player. Muscles move bones. Bones move the body. I think we may be mixing coordination with athleticism. Durant is incredibly well coordinated for an 18 year old. But this is because he has lived in the gym since he was 12 years old. His mentor would not allow him to play in pick up games and drilled him on fundamentals and balance. In fact over the Winter break he went right back to the gym to be drilled by this same mentor. Durant is single minded... good thing he can play basketball so well, he is a horrible speaker.

You dont double Acie Law because he does what he just did against Louisville (at home, which I still cant figure out how a 6th seed gets two home games in the first two rounds) He finds the open man for wide open slashes, or 3's. And the 3 Law made was pure luck, he said so, he shot a knucle ball, it had zero rotation. Kirk is ATM's best 3 point shooter, thats who Barnes was worried about shooting.

And you nailed it with Moses Malone. I totally agree. He was a monster under the boards the minute he stepped on the the court.

Keep em coming. I reserve the right to ask you horsie questions so I can learn more.

I dont think Dirk can guard any 3 in the NBA. None. Zero. I saw Marc Jackson light him up. Marc freakin Jackson. Dirk has zero lateral movement. He plays passable D, he often rests on D because he is usually guarding the other teams least effective player. Avery knows where his bread is buttered unlike Barnes. You seem to have a fascination with Durants muscles. Being skinny has nothing to do with being athletic.
You dont let the other teams best player beat you, period. Louisville doubles everyone and A=M prepared for it (not that they were that effective).

BTW - I have a few highly placed NBA sources that I steal some info from occasionally, I'm not just shooting from the hip.

[ddthetide]

i think durant and texas get Tar Heeled next week.

[Samarta]

Originally Posted by ddthetide

i think durant and texas get Tar Heeled next week.

Say it ain't so......not another Tar Heel Fan...probably the only thing worse than a Bama football is a Tar Heel Hoops fan....lmao..oh and I have the heels getting horned next week.....

[ddthetide]

Originally Posted by Samarta

Say it ain't so......not another Tar Heel Fan...probably the only thing worse than a Bama football is a Tar Heel Hoops fan....lmao..oh and I have the heels getting horned next week.....

OH Yes !! i might have been a Tar Heel basketball fan before fan before a Alabama Football fan !

those were the college basketball days! Coach Smith, the "Big Blue Team", Phil Ford and the "Four Corners", Mitch Kupcheck, Walter Davis, Carmichael Areana......ahhhhh, the OLD School ACC !!

[skippy3481]

Durants body reminds me alot of teyshaun prince in college. Now scoring wise they aren't even close. But with the length and wingspan. He will get bigger in the nba, he's only 19 and he is so tall he hasen't had time to pack on muscle. No doubt he'll at least be a solid nba player.

[King Glorious]

First thing.........Leandro Barbosa is the fastest. Now that that's settled, on to Durant.

I love the guy's game. In college. In college, he's got all of the skills he needs. I am not sure how it can be said that he's not athletic. I see a very nice athlete. To say he's not as good an athlete as Dirk is crazy to me. He's not as physically mature as Dirk is but he's easily a better athlete. The thing I like about him is that he's very polished and poised offensively. He takes exactly what the defense gives him. He has the ability to go into the post and score even though I don't really think he has much of a post game. He's got the perfect game for college.

When he gets to the NBA, he's going to find the going a whole lot tougher. He's going to be able to score 20 a game simply because of his skills and size. He is a mismatch for most people because of his size and skills, sort of like Garnett and Dirk in that regard. But I think he's going to have problems in trying to become a dominant offensive player. I don't see him with a signature move at this point. In the pros, he won't be able to hold a position on the block because he's not big enough. Will he add size? Maybe. If he does, will it take away from his effectiveness on the perimeter? Maybe. I don't see him with the quickness to beat 2's and 3's off the dribble in the NBA. And I think he's going to be able to be guarded by those because he's primarily a perimeter player. Guys like McGrady, James, Bowen, etc will be able to guard him and he won't be able to take advantage of his height advantage and he won't out-quick them. Another problem that I think he'll have is the exact opposite of what works for him in college. Whereas in college he takes what the defense gives him, in the pros, they won't give him anything. He's going to have to take things from them. That's what separates the true superstars. Guys like Bryant, Wade, James, Dirk, Anthony, Iverson, McGrady, etc., they have the ability to take what they want at any point in the game. I haven't seen that ability yet from Durant. The more I watch him play, the less I'm impressed with him. As I said, he'll be a valuable addition to a team. He'll score points. But he won't be able to dominate like he has in college. The player I am most reminded of when I watch him........Bob McAdoo. The current players that I would compare him to are probably Loul Deng, Antawn Jamison, and Tim Thomas.

[Seattleallstar]

I was once compared to John Stockton, only im a much better shooter and I have a killer crossover.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

1. First thing.........Leandro Barbosa is the fastest.

2. To say he's not as good an athlete as Dirk is crazy to me. He's not as physically mature as Dirk is but he's easily a better athlete.

3. I don't see him with the quickness to beat 2's and 3's off the dribble in the NBA. And I think he's going to be able to be guarded by those because he's primarily a perimeter player.
4.Guys like McGrady, James, Bowen, etc will be able to guard him and he won't be able to take advantage of his height advantage and he won't out-quick them.

5. Another problem that I think he'll have is the exact opposite of what works for him in college. Whereas in college he takes what the defense gives him, in the pros, they won't give him anything. He's going to have to take things from them.

6. Guys like Bryant, Wade, James, Dirk, Anthony, Iverson, McGrady, etc., they have the ability to take what they want at any point in the game.

1. Wrong. No. Nein. Nyet. But close.
2. Give us your evidence upon observation.
3. He wont beat them with quickness, he will back them down.
4. You are saying McGrady is a good defensive player and Lebron... holy ***
5. A huge misunderstanding of the rule differences between the pros and college. DEFENSIVE 3 seconds in the pros makes it much more difficult to guard good offensive players. This prevents a true zone from being played like in college. This is why a lot of good offensive players in college, like Wade, become great offensive players in the Pros.
6. And this is the major problem with all of these guys except Wade and James (both still learning). They can do anything offensively at any time, so their teammates watch them. This is exactly why guys like Nash, Bird, Kidd, etc... make much better team players. They know how to involve other teammates. Iverson and Carmello... what a great combo. Look how well they have done. And this, in the end, is what will end their careers earlier than players that rely and baskeball knowhow instead of pure athletic ability. Pure athletic ability goes downhill, basketball saavy gets better. Look how long Stockton lasted at PG... you think Iverson will play as many games as Stockton... no way. Who is the better athlete Stockton or Iverson.

Case closed.

Cannon your cousin? I will take a PM. You got me interested.

[Seattleallstar]

Originally Posted by turdbucket67

why even say such a foolish thing????

because its true, if i dropped the burgers and eggrolls in favor of steamed veggies and water. I would of at least played D1 and had a shot at the NBA

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

First thing.........Leandro Barbosa is the fastest. Now that that's settled, on to Durant.

I love the guy's game. In college. In college, he's got all of the skills he needs. I am not sure how it can be said that he's not athletic. I see a very nice athlete. To say he's not as good an athlete as Dirk is crazy to me. He's not as physically mature as Dirk is but he's easily a better athlete. The thing I like about him is that he's very polished and poised offensively. He takes exactly what the defense gives him. He has the ability to go into the post and score even though I don't really think he has much of a post game. He's got the perfect game for college.

When he gets to the NBA, he's going to find the going a whole lot tougher. He's going to be able to score 20 a game simply because of his skills and size. He is a mismatch for most people because of his size and skills, sort of like Garnett and Dirk in that regard. But I think he's going to have problems in trying to become a dominant offensive player. I don't see him with a signature move at this point. In the pros, he won't be able to hold a position on the block because he's not big enough. Will he add size? Maybe. If he does, will it take away from his effectiveness on the perimeter? Maybe. I don't see him with the quickness to beat 2's and 3's off the dribble in the NBA. And I think he's going to be able to be guarded by those because he's primarily a perimeter player. Guys like McGrady, James, Bowen, etc will be able to guard him and he won't be able to take advantage of his height advantage and he won't out-quick them. Another problem that I think he'll have is the exact opposite of what works for him in college. Whereas in college he takes what the defense gives him, in the pros, they won't give him anything. He's going to have to take things from them. That's what separates the true superstars. Guys like Bryant, Wade, James, Dirk, Anthony, Iverson, McGrady, etc., they have the ability to take what they want at any point in the game. I haven't seen that ability yet from Durant. The more I watch him play, the less I'm impressed with him. As I said, he'll be a valuable addition to a team. He'll score points. But he won't be able to dominate like he has in college. The player I am most reminded of when I watch him........Bob McAdoo. The current players that I would compare him to are probably Loul Deng, Antawn Jamison, and Tim Thomas.

Thought this would be interesting to bring back up and see who's been the closest to being right. Currently, Durant is averaging 20 a night, is very weak on the glass with only 4.2 boards and is not much of a passer at 2.1 assists. He gets to the line 5.5 times a game and he's shooting 39.9% from the field. He's playing the 2-guard position in the NBA. Last night, I watched his game against the Lakers. He shot 6-26 from the field and scored 19 points. He had one rebound and one assist. He shot as many 3's as free throws, six each. He was guarded by Kobe Bryant during the game. I don't recall seeing him in the post at all. The Sonics had the ball for the final possession of regulation with about 20 seconds left. They got the ball to Durant on an isolation with Kobe guarding him. The shot they got from Durant was a fadeway 20-footer that wasn't even close. He had no chance of getting by Bryant and getting to the line or getting a closer shot. This is what I was saying. He's not going to be quicker on the perimeter than 2-guards in the NBA. Maybe if they put some small forwards on him, he can outquick them but not guards. And he has no post-game whatsoever. He doesn't have the size to go with his height to be able to get and hold a position on the blocks against these guys. A lot of the 2-guards in this league are bigger than he is, weight wise. He will add size as he goes along but it's my belief that it still won't make him a post player. He doesn't have that mentality. You see guys like Dirk and KG. They can do it on occassion but when it's not your mentality, it's just not. I think you can take Jamison out of the comparison because he's much more aggressive offensively and rebounds way better. Thomas and Deng are very good comparisons though. They both rebound very bad for their size (Thomas is a career 4.2 guy and he's 6'10") and are more comfortable on the perimeter than on the block. Durant is looking more and more like the guy he replaced up in Seattle, Rashard Lewis.

[Mortimer]

Shut up Glorious...yer mekin' me sick already.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Thought this would be interesting to bring back up and see who's been the closest to being right. Currently, Durant is averaging 20 a night, is very weak on the glass with only 4.2 boards and is not much of a passer at 2.1 assists. He gets to the line 5.5 times a game and he's shooting 39.9% from the field. He's playing the 2-guard position in the NBA. Last night, I watched his game against the Lakers. He shot 6-26 from the field and scored 19 points. He had one rebound and one assist. He shot as many 3's as free throws, six each. He was guarded by Kobe Bryant during the game. I don't recall seeing him in the post at all. The Sonics had the ball for the final possession of regulation with about 20 seconds left. They got the ball to Durant on an isolation with Kobe guarding him. The shot they got from Durant was a fadeway 20-footer that wasn't even close. He had no chance of getting by Bryant and getting to the line or getting a closer shot. This is what I was saying. He's not going to be quicker on the perimeter than 2-guards in the NBA. Maybe if they put some small forwards on him, he can outquick them but not guards. And he has no post-game whatsoever. He doesn't have the size to go with his height to be able to get and hold a position on the blocks against these guys. A lot of the 2-guards in this league are bigger than he is, weight wise. He will add size as he goes along but it's my belief that it still won't make him a post player. He doesn't have that mentality. You see guys like Dirk and KG. They can do it on occassion but when it's not your mentality, it's just not. I think you can take Jamison out of the comparison because he's much more aggressive offensively and rebounds way better. Thomas and Deng are very good comparisons though. They both rebound very bad for their size (Thomas is a career 4.2 guy and he's 6'10") and are more comfortable on the perimeter than on the block. Durant is looking more and more like the guy he replaced up in Seattle, Rashard Lewis.

As I believe I said he is not a great athlete. Durant has a wonderfully quick jump shot. He is playing on an absolutely horrid team and he is being told to shoot anytime he touches the ball. He will be a great catch and shoot player.
And he will go to the basket once he actually puts on some muscle. He is a skinny kid.

Durant is probably the weakest player in the NBA. Nahh he has to be. Should have stayed at Texas because I said so.

I think you have hit on an important theme about posting up. But the mentality that allows one to want to post up is the ability not to be moved from a spot easily.

All the guys you mention have very little lower body strength.
Garnett is so much more athletic compared to Duncan but he has never been able to guard Duncan because Duncan backs down with his ample butt and keeps Garnett stuck on the floor. You look at a guy like David Robinson and he was all muscle upstairs. But down low, no legs or butt thus no post up game. Same with most of the guys you mentioned. Rasheed Wallace can post but it is almost always followed by a jumper falling away... no chance for a tip or quick grab and put back when you do that. And Rasheed just cannot wear people down like Duncan or Shaq (when he is healthy), he cant take the beating. And part of it is he is not big enough low. His center of mass is too high to post consistently.

Lower body strength is something that I think is overlooked. Charles Barkely was incredibly strong down low and in the upper body so at 6' 5" or 6' 6" he was a great post up player.

Originally Posted by ddthetide

i think durant and texas get Tar Heeled next week.

If Texas gets there I agree. NC is much much tougher inside than Texas. Texas would have to make this a completely run and gun game to win, again, if they get there.