Lava Man to Dubai

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by POINTGIVEN1985

ok it ruins SOME HORSES, its a risk that i dont think anyone should take, the only reasson they go there is for the $ campaign your horse over here and point to the breeders cup, it might not be a lost seasson IF he ships ok, but its definitly a lost 3-4 months.

some horses can ship, some can't. but to not ship any because some don't like it imo is silly. some horses can't run in the slop, should they cancel all racing over an off-track?
i don't think it ruins the horses. i think some just need more time to recover then others. if your horse is a good shipper, what the heck-go for it. if he's not, then don't.
and a lot of horses don't miss much time, i think 3-4 months is the exception, not the rule.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

if your horse is a good shipper, what the heck-go for it. if he's not, then don't.

Right....but Lava Man isn't.

Lava Man has proved consistently that he's a good shipper BACK to California and can return to top form in California after a little rest (no more than 2 months). Both races off layoffs were Sunshine Millions Races (one after Japan and one after Churchill) and, in all honesty, in both Sunshine Races he looked like he needed the race badly as a prep for the more challenging SA 'Cap. I don't think that he's toast for his career or for this year by going to Dubai, but I do think that the connections are doing what is in their best interest (a free trip with all the trappings in Dubai) than in what is in Lava Man's best interests.

I DEFINITELY would take a shot at shipping him within the US for a turf race just to be certain beyond any doubt that shipping and not surface is his problem when he ships (4 races out of 37 don't make much of scientific example in shipping), but the Woodford Reserve would've been a dream spot for him to run. Churchill on Derby Day - National TV coverage - a Grade 1 - and possible soft competition. Plus he could get bute 24 hours+ before the race in KY and Lasix. Bad, bad move and O'Neill really should've taken a stand against this move to Dubai.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by FairPlay

Lava Man has proved consistently that he's a good shipper BACK to California and can return to top form in California after a little rest (no more than 2 months). Both races off layoffs were Sunshine Millions Races (one after Japan and one after Churchill) and, in all honesty, in both Sunshine Races he looked like he needed the race badly as a prep for the more challenging SA 'Cap. I don't think that he's toast for his career or for this year by going to Dubai, but I do think that the connections are doing what is in their best interest (a free trip with all the trappings in Dubai) than in what is in Lava Man's best interests.

I DEFINITELY would take a shot at shipping him within the US for a turf race just to be certain beyond any doubt that shipping and not surface is his problem when he ships (4 races out of 37 don't make much of scientific example in shipping), but the Woodford Reserve would've been a dream spot for him to run. Churchill on Derby Day - National TV coverage - a Grade 1 - and possible soft competition. Plus he could get bute 24 hours+ before the race in KY and Lasix. Bad, bad move and O'Neill really should've taken a stand against this move to Dubai.

I felt that way before the Breeders Cup, but I'm pretty convinced that the reason he does so poorly has a lot to do with being shipped. Since he seems to do OK in California, this tells me that he probably has an issue with being put on an airplane. It has also been noted that he's a stall walker (which doesn't help the cause either.)

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Right....but Lava Man isn't.

depends on how you look at it! i look at it as a good shipper doesn't get ill, lose a beat, etc. a bad shipper is one who is laid up for months after. some tho might think a good shipper is one who wins his race--but then he might be laid up for months after....so he's not really a good shipper.

lava man ships great-he just doesn't pay his travelling expenses til he gets back home!!

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

depends on how you look at it! i look at it as a good shipper doesn't get ill, lose a beat, etc. a bad shipper is one who is laid up for months after. some tho might think a good shipper is one who wins his race--but then he might be laid up for months after....so he's not really a good shipper.

lava man ships great-he just doesn't pay his travelling expenses til he gets back home!!

It's not the trip, it's the BUTE . He can't run without BUTE. Thats why he can't win outside of Cal. The soft competition in Cal doesn't hurt either. But it's not his fault no one from the east goes out to face him. Surf Cat will stomp him into a dirt hole if he can stay together long enough to face him.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

It's not the trip, it's the BUTE . He can't run without BUTE. Thats why he can't win outside of Cal. The soft competition in Cal doesn't hurt either. But it's not his fault no one from the east goes out to face him. Surf Cat will stomp him into a dirt hole if he can stay together long enough to face him.

i wish i had a dollar for every time someone claimed it was the bute. bute isn't limited to cali. of course that's been posted on here fairly often when the accusation is made. but some still cling to their urban myths i suppose.

[Danzig]

bute: Short for phenylbutazone, a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medication that is legal in most racing jurisdictions. Often known by the trade names Butazolidin and Butazone

that definition came from nyra.

[SOREHOOF]

I knew that would get a rise. Cal seems to be the only major league jurisdiction that allows it. I know it's not exactly hard drugs, more like aspirin, but he seems to be able to ship all over Cal and do well. Maybe he is just overmatched outside of Cal. I hope he wins in Dubai. Premium Tap has a shot in his race and he runs drug free.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

bute: Short for phenylbutazone, a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medication that is legal in most racing jurisdictions. Often known by the trade names Butazolidin and Butazone

that definition came from nyra.

The problem is that some people look at the PP's and do not see a "B" beside the "L" and think that Bute was absent. Certain state's requirements do not require the reporting of Bute so it is absent from the PP's. Kentucky is an example. Lava Man ran under the same bute rules in CA and in KY for the Breeders' Cup..it can be administered no later than 24 hours before post time of the race. The dosage is the same, as well, I believe.