Lava Man to Dubai

[POINTGIVEN1985]

i realize that, but that trip to dubai ruins horses, and at this point they dont even know if he will ship. they can stay here, and if he ships well for the turf they can run in the woodford reserve, the manhatan, arlington million, united nations, and im sure there are a bunch out there in cali, there are also a few big one's at belmont in the fall

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by POINTGIVEN1985

i realize that, but that trip to dubai ruins horses, and at this point they dont even know if he will ship. they can stay here, and if he ships well for the turf they can run in the woodford reserve, the manhatan, arlington million, united nations, and im sure there are a bunch out there in cali, there are also a few big one's at belmont in the fall

If he went to any of the races you have mentioned,he would get his ASS KICKED!!! Just like what will happen in Dubai

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by Kimmeastar

If he went to any of the races you have mentioned,he would get his ASS KICKED!!! Just like what will happen in Dubai

This is probably closer to the truth....

He will most likely get stroked in Dubai.

But I thought The Tin Man would get raped last year as well, and he got a good second.

[PPerfectfan]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

This is probably closer to the truth....

He will most likely get stroked in Dubai.

But I thought The Tin Man would get raped last year as well, and he got a good second.

Umm while I am just a tad prejudiced, Tin got a great second. Had to set all the pace because of a poor post and ran his guts out to barely get beat by a very nice horse. I am beyond shocked that they would ship Lava Man....must less to Dubai. With all of the races he could win here I am amazed.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by PPerfectfan

Umm while I am just a tad prejudiced, Tin got a great second. Had to set all the pace because of a poor post and ran his guts out to barely get beat by a very nice horse. I am beyond shocked that they would ship Lava Man....must less to Dubai. With all of the races he could win here I am amazed.

Okay..... upped to great second from good second.

David Junior pissed on all of them though. Rudely, I might add.

[PPerfectfan]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

Okay..... upped to great second from good second.

David Junior pissed on all of them though. Rudely, I might add.

Thanks thats all I ask for.hehe Now come on Rudely??? maybe with a mean look on his face...yeah thats it.

[POINTGIVEN1985]

Originally Posted by Kimmeastar

If he went to any of the races you have mentioned,he would get his ASS KICKED!!! Just like what will happen in Dubai

wowowow i never said i like him, i did not say he would win those races i just think it's a better idea for the horse. i think showing up would run him off the track on the turf, anywhere in cali or anywhere i also think the tin man and english channel are alot better on turf along with a few others

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by POINTGIVEN1985

i realize that, but that trip to dubai ruins horses, and at this point they dont even know if he will ship. they can stay here, and if he ships well for the turf they can run in the woodford reserve, the manhatan, arlington million, united nations, and im sure there are a bunch out there in cali, there are also a few big one's at belmont in the fall

Dubai is a bad idea, but this campaign would not make much sense either. He does not like going to Louisville or New York. I think he would fail there on the turf as much as he failed there on the dirt. The point is, this horse is so effective in SoCal, that it makes no sense to send him anywhere else, after he has proven repeatedly that he can't do it.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by POINTGIVEN1985

i realize that, but that trip to dubai ruins horses, and at this point they dont even know if he will ship. they can stay here, and if he ships well for the turf they can run in the woodford reserve, the manhatan, arlington million, united nations, and im sure there are a bunch out there in cali, there are also a few big one's at belmont in the fall

it does not ruin horses. look at the year invasor had after dubai! i think they only take so much time off for blueblood horses, give them plenty of time to get over their trip. his campaign last year was definitive proof that shipping to dubai doesn't mean a lost season.

[POINTGIVEN1985]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

it does not ruin horses. look at the year invasor had after dubai! i think they only take so much time off for blueblood horses, give them plenty of time to get over their trip. his campaign last year was definitive proof that shipping to dubai doesn't mean a lost season.

ok it ruins SOME HORSES, its a risk that i dont think anyone should take, the only reasson they go there is for the $ campaign your horse over here and point to the breeders cup, it might not be a lost seasson IF he ships ok, but its definitly a lost 3-4 months.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by POINTGIVEN1985

ok it ruins SOME HORSES, its a risk that i dont think anyone should take, the only reasson they go there is for the $ campaign your horse over here and point to the breeders cup, it might not be a lost seasson IF he ships ok, but its definitly a lost 3-4 months.

some horses can ship, some can't. but to not ship any because some don't like it imo is silly. some horses can't run in the slop, should they cancel all racing over an off-track?
i don't think it ruins the horses. i think some just need more time to recover then others. if your horse is a good shipper, what the heck-go for it. if he's not, then don't.
and a lot of horses don't miss much time, i think 3-4 months is the exception, not the rule.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

if your horse is a good shipper, what the heck-go for it. if he's not, then don't.

Right....but Lava Man isn't.

Lava Man has proved consistently that he's a good shipper BACK to California and can return to top form in California after a little rest (no more than 2 months). Both races off layoffs were Sunshine Millions Races (one after Japan and one after Churchill) and, in all honesty, in both Sunshine Races he looked like he needed the race badly as a prep for the more challenging SA 'Cap. I don't think that he's toast for his career or for this year by going to Dubai, but I do think that the connections are doing what is in their best interest (a free trip with all the trappings in Dubai) than in what is in Lava Man's best interests.

I DEFINITELY would take a shot at shipping him within the US for a turf race just to be certain beyond any doubt that shipping and not surface is his problem when he ships (4 races out of 37 don't make much of scientific example in shipping), but the Woodford Reserve would've been a dream spot for him to run. Churchill on Derby Day - National TV coverage - a Grade 1 - and possible soft competition. Plus he could get bute 24 hours+ before the race in KY and Lasix. Bad, bad move and O'Neill really should've taken a stand against this move to Dubai.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by FairPlay

Lava Man has proved consistently that he's a good shipper BACK to California and can return to top form in California after a little rest (no more than 2 months). Both races off layoffs were Sunshine Millions Races (one after Japan and one after Churchill) and, in all honesty, in both Sunshine Races he looked like he needed the race badly as a prep for the more challenging SA 'Cap. I don't think that he's toast for his career or for this year by going to Dubai, but I do think that the connections are doing what is in their best interest (a free trip with all the trappings in Dubai) than in what is in Lava Man's best interests.

I DEFINITELY would take a shot at shipping him within the US for a turf race just to be certain beyond any doubt that shipping and not surface is his problem when he ships (4 races out of 37 don't make much of scientific example in shipping), but the Woodford Reserve would've been a dream spot for him to run. Churchill on Derby Day - National TV coverage - a Grade 1 - and possible soft competition. Plus he could get bute 24 hours+ before the race in KY and Lasix. Bad, bad move and O'Neill really should've taken a stand against this move to Dubai.

I felt that way before the Breeders Cup, but I'm pretty convinced that the reason he does so poorly has a lot to do with being shipped. Since he seems to do OK in California, this tells me that he probably has an issue with being put on an airplane. It has also been noted that he's a stall walker (which doesn't help the cause either.)

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Right....but Lava Man isn't.

depends on how you look at it! i look at it as a good shipper doesn't get ill, lose a beat, etc. a bad shipper is one who is laid up for months after. some tho might think a good shipper is one who wins his race--but then he might be laid up for months after....so he's not really a good shipper.

lava man ships great-he just doesn't pay his travelling expenses til he gets back home!!

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

depends on how you look at it! i look at it as a good shipper doesn't get ill, lose a beat, etc. a bad shipper is one who is laid up for months after. some tho might think a good shipper is one who wins his race--but then he might be laid up for months after....so he's not really a good shipper.

lava man ships great-he just doesn't pay his travelling expenses til he gets back home!!

It's not the trip, it's the BUTE . He can't run without BUTE. Thats why he can't win outside of Cal. The soft competition in Cal doesn't hurt either. But it's not his fault no one from the east goes out to face him. Surf Cat will stomp him into a dirt hole if he can stay together long enough to face him.