Flower Alley

Originally Posted by oracle80

Well I guess I was right about it being by design that he started late this year, Pletcher said no setbacks on the front page of the DRF today. he just ran on a wet track in his 2006 debut and just switched leads late and crushed em with a great last 1/4. All you guys who were chiding me about saying hes the best this year, no doubt, and where has he been blah blah. Well hes back, and back in style and hes going to be the head honcho this year!!!!!! Eat that BOYS!!!

Bernardini leaves more talent in his stall every morning than Flower Alley has all together....I, for one, still think somthing was bothering Flower Alley to not try to make the Gr. I Stephen Foster, especially since the BC Classic will be there this year....Pletcher won't admit it but everybody knows that he is one of the most tight-lipped trainers in the world...he wouldn't show his hand with any horse and especially a horse with a potential big-time stud deal on the horizon (I've had to interview him SEVERAL of times...he doesn't offer any information).....he's not the soundest animal on earth - that I can assure you of....I watched him train at CD during Derby week and he looked a little crabby to me....nice, big chestnut and he is talented, but you can have him as your Handicap division pick....I think Bernardini will break him in half in the JC Gold Cup before the BC if they both make it that far...

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Bernardini leaves more talent in his stall every morning than Flower Alley has all together....I, for one, still think somthing was bothering Flower Alley to not try to make the Gr. I Stephen Foster, especially since the BC Classic will be there this year....Pletcher won't admit it but everybody knows that he is one of the most tight-lipped trainers in the world...he wouldn't show his hand with any horse and especially a horse with a potential big-time stud deal on the horizon.....he's not the soundest animal on earth - that I can assure you of....I watched him train at CD during Derby week and he looked a little crabby to me....nice, big chestnut and he is talented, but you can have him as your Handicap division pick....I think Bernardini will break him in half in the JC Gold Cup before the BC if they both make it that far...

Ok Joel, Todds a liar. Great. He may be tight lipped but hes not a liar, there is a difference and his word is as good as anyones. If he says today point blank that there was no setback thats good enough for me. With all due respect I don't know you, but i do know Todd, and I have to take what he says as truth. Hes about as bright and honorable as anyone in this game. Tight lipped doesnt mean that he would lie and say there was no setback.

Wake me up when Bernadini beats a field where the main competitors dont get injured. Luxembourg went wrong in the Withers(you will notice he hasnt been seen since) and Bro Derek smashed his face in the gate and we all know what happened to Barbaro. Not saying he isnt very talented, but he has much to prove.

[Danzig]

i agree that bernardini has much to prove.

as for bro derek, i think i've sold that horse short in the past. two hard races, both with HUGE reasons why that horse coulda/shoulda thrown in the towel, but didn't.

that horse may be a lot of things, but heartless derek isn't.

[blackthroatedwind]

Suggesting he called Todd a liar is more than a little harsh, and you know that, and as someone with a little experience in this game I think you know exactly what that poster was inferring. Believe it or not, people tend to not tell the whole story more than occasionally in this game. I am with the other poster that Flower Alley more than likely had some sort of problem. Luckily it wasn't enough to end his career, as he's a very nice horse, and God knows we need more good horses. Some of the dreck that have been competing in our so-called marquee races for older horses don't even belong in competitive Grade 3s.

I have always liked Flower Alley ever since the insane ride Chavez gave him in the Derby, and don't disagree that as of now he has as much right to be the top older horse as any in the country. However, I am not going to get worked up over his win today against four overmatched opponents ( no, they weren't slugs, but they were hardly a noteworthy bunch ). And, just as we would have forgiven him had he struggled in the mud, we should also at least entertain the possibility that he relished it. I highly doubt you are one to draw conclusive opinions from wet track races...either positively or negatively.

Let's also keep in mind that this is a barn that fires on all cylanders when running fresh horses. More than a few have looked great early only to fizzle out badly. I doubt I need to supply any examples as they are plentiful.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Suggesting he called Todd a liar is more than a little harsh, and you know that, and as someone with a little experience in this game I think you know exactly what that poster was inferring. Believe it or not, people tend to not tell the whole story more than occasionally in this game. I am with the other poster that Flower Alley more than likely had some sort of problem. Luckily it wasn't enough to end his career, as he's a very nice horse, and God knows we need more good horses. Some of the dreck that have been competing in our so-called marquee races for older horses don't even belong in competitive Grade 3s.

I have always liked Flower Alley ever since the insane ride Chavez gave him in the Derby, and don't disagree that as of now he has as much right to be the top older horse as any in the country. However, I am not going to get worked up over his win today against four overmatched opponents ( no, they weren't slugs, but they were hardly a noteworthy bunch ). And, just as we would have forgiven him had he struggled in the mud, we should also at least entertain the possibility that he relished it. I highly doubt you are one to draw conclusive opinions from wet track races...either positively or negatively.

Let's also keep in mind that this is a barn that fires on all cylanders when running fresh horses. More than a few have looked great early only to fizzle out badly. I doubt I need to supply any examples as they are plentiful.

Black he said in todays DRF that there was no setback. Like you both I was thinking the same thing until I read that. Todd is indeed tight lipped, but for him to offer that up tells me that there was no setback. He could have avoided that question in a variety of ways, he said no setback.

[blackthroatedwind]

God, I hope that's not the first half-truth ever printed in a newspaper.

I like and respect Todd, but pardon me if I remain skeptical, I've just been around this game too long to be otherwise.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

God, I hope that's not the first half-truth ever printed in a newspaper.

I like and respect Todd, but pardon me if I remain skeptical, I've just been around this game too long to be otherwise.

I am the same way, but I truly think they planned a late start and when he came back it took em a while to get off the weight and get him fit, he may have been off TOO long. He looked much larger than he did last year today. I'm not the best source on horses looks but I pulled last years BCC I have stored and compared it to todays. He looked much bigger.

Originally Posted by oracle80

I am the same way, but I truly think they planned a late start and when he came back it took em a while to get off the weight and get him fit, he may have been off TOO long. He looked much larger than he did last year today. I'm not the best source on horses looks but I pulled last years BCC I have stored and compared it to todays. He looked much bigger.

I sat on the rail at CD Derby week last year with my former boss, Steve Fugitte, and Todd gallopped by with a grey colt and we asked if it was Argento and he said - and I quote..."**** you"...and ever since then I realized the type of man he was.....he may be great, but you don't tell a VP at CD to "**** off" for no reason when they ask if a particular horse was Argento (who was a cheap allowance turf colt that Pletcher had)....by the way, I know it was him...just thought it was hilarious that Pletcher was defensive...the horse never ran for a tag anyway......to say that Pletcher is 100% an honest and straight-shooting guy would be 100% bull****...he has an agenda and he always follows it....