Most disappointing Sires

[Linny]

He had El Condor Pasa and Lemon Drop Kid early in his career, but (at least in the US) has not seemed to consistently sire high quality. He still sells well but I would have expected him to have sired more multiple GSW's and more candidates for year end honors over the years. being by Mr P, I'd have expected more dirt success.
I guess I'd say he's not a failure, but he hasn't lived up to my expectations.

BTW, how do you define failure? If a horse who is only moderately bred is a top racehorse but doesn't sire much (think Skip Away, Tiznow, Silver Charm etc) is he a failure? In most cases like those, breeders really don't expect that much anyhow. To me a failure is one with the pedigree, race record and conformation who just don't sire anything of note. Citation is a classic example, though history did prove Bull Lea to be a terrible sire of sires. Nashua didn't sire much either, in terms of top class colts but his fillies were great producers. Surely breeders expected more of him. By this standeard Coronado's Quest and Dayjur (both champs, well bred and built) jump to mind. They were well supported with good mares and stood at top farms.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Linny

He had El Condor Pasa and Lemon Drop Kid early in his career, but (at least in the US) has not seemed to consistently sire high quality. He still sells well but I would have expected him to have sired more multiple GSW's and more candidates for year end honors over the years. being by Mr P, I'd have expected more dirt success.
I guess I'd say he's not a failure, but he hasn't lived up to my expectations.

BTW, how do you define failure? If a horse who is only moderately bred is a top racehorse but doesn't sire much (think Skip Away, Tiznow, Silver Charm etc) is he a failure? In most cases like those, breeders really don't expect that much anyhow. To me a failure is one with the pedigree, race record and conformation who just don't sire anything of note. Citation is a classic example, though history did prove Bull Lea to be a terrible sire of sires. Nashua didn't sire much either, in terms of top class colts but his fillies were great producers. Surely breeders expected more of him. By this standeard Coronado's Quest and Dayjur (both champs, well bred and built) jump to mind. They were well supported with good mares and stood at top farms.

I get what you mean now...I misread your post as you didn't think his first few crops were that good and i thought perhaps you had him mixed up with king cugat...my mistake

Here is a list of all of the HOY's for the 1990's:

1990 - Criminal Type
1991 - Black Tie Affair
1992 - A.P. Indy
1993 - Kotashaan
1994 - Holy Bull
1995 - Cigar
1996 - Cigar
1997 - Favorite Trick
1998 - Skip Away
1999 - Charismatic

Only A.P. Indy has been fantastic. Holy Bull has been serviceable as a sire, but surely hasn't replicated himself. Cigar is infertile and the rest didn't do anything in the shed as of yet (Criminal Type and Favorite Trick are now deceased).

[slotdirt]

BTA had Formal Gold. Formal Gold was a god-dang good racehorse.

[Linny]

In all honesty, AP Indy was the only one of those HOY's who had a "stallion's pedigree." Most of those horses did just about what was expected in the stud. Of the list, I'd call Favorite Trick a failure. With his speed and early maturity, I'd have expected him to be a top Juvie sire.
It's not fair to count infertile or subfertile stallions as failures as sires any more than it would be to do so for a gelding. Lure was subfertile and though he got some nice offspring, he was rarely bred to good mares because most breeders don't want to risk a productive year from a top mare on a stallion who is unlikely to get her in foal.

[Seattleallstar]

da BId
alysheba

and in his last years Deputy Minister

keep in mind sres like Storm Cat, AP Indy, and MR P were always mated to the best broodmares in the world so of course they had more of a chance to produce superstars.

Distored Humor, Awesome Again gets my vote as the two best studs in the past 5 years.

Arazi...totally mismanaged. Does anyone even know where this poor guy is?

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Bold Reasoning

Arazi...totally mismanaged. Does anyone even know where this poor guy is?

I think he is in Australia...Magic Idol might know.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar

da BId
alysheba

and in his last years Deputy Minister

keep in mind sres like Storm Cat, AP Indy, and MR P were always mated to the best broodmares in the world so of course they had more of a chance to produce superstars.

Distored Humor, Awesome Again gets my vote as the two best studs in the past 5 years.

those two have been successful but remember they are owned by 2 of the largest farms in the Bluegrass and therefore are supported by many of the farm's best mares....which goes a long way in making them the good sires they have become...Just like AP indy and SC

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

those two have been successful but remember they are owned by 2 of the largest farms in the Bluegrass and therefore are supported by many of the farm's best mares....which goes a long way in making them the good sires they have become...Just like AP indy and SC

I dont think that Distored Humor got a great book the first few years. He really overachieved and I don't know anyone who thought that he would be this good. My friend did buy a share and has cashed in for a LARGE profit.

[Pedigree Ann]

[quote=FairPlay]Here is a list of all of the HOY's for the 1990's:

1993 - Kotashaan
[quote]

Kotashaan was exported to Japan as soon as his North American racing career was over. Never had any runners in the US. Did you check the sires lists in Japan to see how he did?

[slotdirt]

There are about 1,000 horses out there who accomplished more on the track than did Storm Cat.