Questions for PointGiven1985

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

That's a really unfair comment.

I was explaining why the public made Trust N Luck the favorite over Empire Maker that day.

If you have a better explanation regarding that.....post it.

Part of it was that Empire Maker had proven absolutely nothing at that point and the rest of the field was utter garbage.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Part of it was that Empire Maker had proven absolutely nothing at that point and the rest of the field was utter garbage.

The other poster who mentioned the pace scenero is correct on that point, however, you don't think Trust N Luck's two races leading into the FLA Derby, didn't look good on paper?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The other poster who mentioned the pace scenero is correct on that point, however, you don't think Trust N Luck's two races leading into the FLA Derby, didn't look good on paper?

It was a terrible field as I recall with only two contenders...and they finished one two.

[cmorioles]

Peace Rules in a romp in any state. The only reason Lava Man keeps in winning in California is because there is zero real competition in California.

Empire Maker was the best horse, but no way his wins trump the Derby/Preakness double. FC won the NCAAs, EM the NIT.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Unlike Smarty Jones' day, when no one cheered after Birdstone crossed the wire in front, I gave a little cheer for "The Empire" after he righted the wrong from the Kentucky Derby by winning the Belmont Stakes. I think that he was much the better horse, but Funny Cide -- who I've come to root for the last three years, because he is on the track -- accomplished more that year.

I was thrilled, and hardly at all surprised, that Empire Maker dominated Funny Cide in the Belmont. I think there is zero doubt he was the better horse. However, he didn't deserve 3YO honors.


Any sane person knows Dynever deserved that Eclipse.

[blackthroatedwind]

I see even you were so embarrassed by the inclusion of " $400K " that you edited it out.

Set....match.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Set....match.

Claim victory all you want....

But do know you went Andrew Golota on me in this thread.

If it makes you feel better....I will revise the 2003 Fountain Of Youth to Grade 2 status....even though it factually wasn't.

[cmorioles]

I'm sure it was part of the Florida Stallion series.

I also think that Empire Maker loses a few points for skipping the Preakness. He was not, however, off the board in the Derby.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I'm sure it was part of the Florida Stallion series.

I also think that Empire Maker loses a few points for skipping the Preakness. He was not, however, off the board in the Derby.

I thought he came in Fourth if not my mistake, I might be thinking of Point Given.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

friends lake ..a true monster that was gone before his time..lol

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It was a terrible field as I recall with only two contenders...and they finished one two.

Oh come on, Supah Blitz and Senor Swinger were awesome horses.. It was an amazing field.

[boswd]

trust-n-Luck? Who in Sam Hill give's a rat's a$$ about Trust n luck

[blackthroatedwind]

And, by the way, it's totally fair. In this case you could have said he won the Florida Derby prep for this race ( at 10:1 I seem to remember ) and said it was the FOY. Instead you chose to ONLY refer to it as a " Grade 1 " which tells none of the story and only attempts to somehow elevate its status....as though the public was betting blindly on any Grade 1 winner.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

And, by the way, it's totally fair. In this case you could have said he won the Florida Derby prep for this race ( at 10:1 I seem to remember ) and said it was the FOY. Instead you chose to ONLY refer to it as a " Grade 1 " which tells none of the story and only attempts to somehow elevate its status....as though the public was betting blindly on any Grade 1 winner.

So, after winning a 2yo stake race by double digit lengths, with a 110 Beyer (has any 2yo ever run a Beyer that high in a route race since they've been published in the form?)

He was than 10/1 off that Performance in the Foutain of Youth....which he won by like 6 lengths?

I know you know you're earlier comment wasn't fair. It was pure bullshit. You know that.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

So, after winning a $400,000 2yo stake race by double digit lengths, with a 110 Beyer (has any 2yo ever run a Beyer that high in a route race since they've been published in the form?)

He was than 10/1 off that Performance in the Foutain of Youth....which he won by like 6 lengths?

I know you know you're earlier comment wasn't fair. It was pure bullshit. You know that.

It was nowhere close to BS and you have further proved my point with this drivel. " 400K 2YO stake race ". It was one of those bloated purse stakes at Calder that may well have been restricted to Florida Breds. How come you didn't include that more pertinent information?

If you weren't trying to prove this particular point you would be saying how he won the FOY by taking advantage of a bias.

Please, manipulating Trust N Luck's record to somehow justify that Empire Maker should have been 3YO champ is beneath you. If you want to use Crist's argument, fine, as while I don't agree with him at least he stuck to defendable reasons. Or, perhaps I'm wrong, and Steve also said Empire Maker was a deserving winner because he beat a " Grade 1 winner and conquerer of a $400K 2YO stake " while winning the Florida Derby.

I expect better from a high quality poster such as yourself. And, oh yeah, I'm jealous of your good looks.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I got rid of the 400K part about five seconds after I hit the submit button...because I knew you would take it the wrong way...this has all been about what appears in the horses form on paper...it seems like you aren't understanding that.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Please, manipulating Trust N Luck's record to somehow justify that Empire Maker should have been 3YO champ is beneath you.

I did nothing of the sort.

The post was in regard to why the public made Trust N Luck the favorite over Empire Maker in the betting.

Perhaps I should have just said the he ran Beyers of 110 and 106 in his last two starts, and the other lost to Man Among Men in the ungraded Sham Stakes...and mentioned the pace scenerio on paper.

The fact that I mentioned his prior win was a Grade 1 (and it was) in no way means I'm trying to mislead anyone about anything

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The fact that I mentioned his prior win was a Grade 1 (and it was) in no way means I'm trying to mislead anyone about anything

The BS meter just exploded in my apartment.

Is it too late for you to do the one thing you are good at and get here with a pail?

[POINTGIVEN1985]

i would say 8/10 empire maker would have defeated funny cide... the other one is bit harder

peace rules was a dead game horse, but in california i'd have to say lava man