Questions for PointGiven1985

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Trust -n- Luck, who was favored over "The Empire," since he was considered lone speed.

You also have to factor in that TNL was coming in off of two lopsided wins routing, one with a 110 Beyer in a Calder Stake at age 2, and the other in a Grade 1 race by a clear-cut margin.

Empire Maker, on the other hand, was coming into the race off a loss to Man Among Men in the Sham Stakes....when he was the victim of circumstances

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

You also have to factor in that TNL was coming in off of two lopsided wins routing, one with a 110 Beyer in a Calder Stake at age 2, and the other in a Grade 1 race by a clear-cut margin.

Empire Maker, on the other hand, was coming into the race off a loss to Man Among Men in the Sham Stakes....when he was the victim of circumstances

The " Grade 1 " Trust N Luck won was a prep for a prep, known as the Fountain of Youth, which is now rightfully back to grade 2 status ( should be Grade 6 after this past weekend ).

I love how you give incomplete, and intentionally misleading, information when you know your point is weak.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I love how you give incomplete, and intentionally misleading, information when you know your point is weak.

That's a really unfair comment.

I was explaining why the public made Trust N Luck the favorite over Empire Maker that day.

If you have a better explanation regarding that.....post it.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

That's a really unfair comment.

I was explaining why the public made Trust N Luck the favorite over Empire Maker that day.

If you have a better explanation regarding that.....post it.

Part of it was that Empire Maker had proven absolutely nothing at that point and the rest of the field was utter garbage.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Part of it was that Empire Maker had proven absolutely nothing at that point and the rest of the field was utter garbage.

The other poster who mentioned the pace scenero is correct on that point, however, you don't think Trust N Luck's two races leading into the FLA Derby, didn't look good on paper?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The other poster who mentioned the pace scenero is correct on that point, however, you don't think Trust N Luck's two races leading into the FLA Derby, didn't look good on paper?

It was a terrible field as I recall with only two contenders...and they finished one two.

[cmorioles]

Peace Rules in a romp in any state. The only reason Lava Man keeps in winning in California is because there is zero real competition in California.

Empire Maker was the best horse, but no way his wins trump the Derby/Preakness double. FC won the NCAAs, EM the NIT.

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It was a terrible field as I recall with only two contenders...and they finished one two.

Oh come on, Supah Blitz and Senor Swinger were awesome horses.. It was an amazing field.

[boswd]

trust-n-Luck? Who in Sam Hill give's a rat's a$$ about Trust n luck

[blackthroatedwind]

And, by the way, it's totally fair. In this case you could have said he won the Florida Derby prep for this race ( at 10:1 I seem to remember ) and said it was the FOY. Instead you chose to ONLY refer to it as a " Grade 1 " which tells none of the story and only attempts to somehow elevate its status....as though the public was betting blindly on any Grade 1 winner.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

And, by the way, it's totally fair. In this case you could have said he won the Florida Derby prep for this race ( at 10:1 I seem to remember ) and said it was the FOY. Instead you chose to ONLY refer to it as a " Grade 1 " which tells none of the story and only attempts to somehow elevate its status....as though the public was betting blindly on any Grade 1 winner.

So, after winning a 2yo stake race by double digit lengths, with a 110 Beyer (has any 2yo ever run a Beyer that high in a route race since they've been published in the form?)

He was than 10/1 off that Performance in the Foutain of Youth....which he won by like 6 lengths?

I know you know you're earlier comment wasn't fair. It was pure bullshit. You know that.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

So, after winning a $400,000 2yo stake race by double digit lengths, with a 110 Beyer (has any 2yo ever run a Beyer that high in a route race since they've been published in the form?)

He was than 10/1 off that Performance in the Foutain of Youth....which he won by like 6 lengths?

I know you know you're earlier comment wasn't fair. It was pure bullshit. You know that.

It was nowhere close to BS and you have further proved my point with this drivel. " 400K 2YO stake race ". It was one of those bloated purse stakes at Calder that may well have been restricted to Florida Breds. How come you didn't include that more pertinent information?

If you weren't trying to prove this particular point you would be saying how he won the FOY by taking advantage of a bias.

Please, manipulating Trust N Luck's record to somehow justify that Empire Maker should have been 3YO champ is beneath you. If you want to use Crist's argument, fine, as while I don't agree with him at least he stuck to defendable reasons. Or, perhaps I'm wrong, and Steve also said Empire Maker was a deserving winner because he beat a " Grade 1 winner and conquerer of a $400K 2YO stake " while winning the Florida Derby.

I expect better from a high quality poster such as yourself. And, oh yeah, I'm jealous of your good looks.

[POINTGIVEN1985]

i would say 8/10 empire maker would have defeated funny cide... the other one is bit harder

peace rules was a dead game horse, but in california i'd have to say lava man

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

FOY which is now rightfully back to grade 2 status ( should be Grade 6 after this past weekend ).

This is the deepest field we have seen so far as a true derby Prep. The Hutcheson and The RB Lewis, both grade II's were better? The FOY was a damn good race.