Closest you have come to the big score...

[POINTGIVEN1985]

Originally Posted by Grits

I'm not laughing at you PG1985, I'm laughing with you. So understand that I'm not bashing you here.

They say in the music business, "if you ain't got a hit, you ain't got $h!t." That's probably true.

I figure the same goes when wagering on horses, if you ain't got the winner on your ticket, darlin', you ain't got $h!t. I don't care how good your choices were on the rest of your ticket. It don't matter. I repeat, it just don't. Not all the IFs on Earth are gonna change that.

In other words, IF A FROG HAD WINGS HE WOULDN'T BUMP HIS @$$ SO MUCH!

The "I was close losers" horseplayers have ripped, could wrap around this Earth, end to end, a blue million times, and they'd still simply be LOSERS.

You don't want to dwell on those, they bring about mental illness.

i had the best day of my life this past years breeders cup, i had round pond to win, red rocks to win, both larger win place wagers

[Grits]

Originally Posted by POINTGIVEN1985

i had the best day of my life this past years breeders cup, i had round pond to win, red rocks to win, both larger win place wagers

You wasted your money on place, as I've been taught, if you thought he could place, you thought he could win. Forget the place wager. Next year, you'll make more money.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Grits

You wasted your money on place, as I've been taught, if you thought he could place, you thought he could win. Forget the place wager. Next year, you'll make more money.

Completely disagree. When a longshot finishes second and you get nothing, what have you gotten for being right about a horse outrunning his odds? Nothing.

[Grits]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Completely disagree. When a longshot finishes second and you get nothing, what have you gotten for being right about a horse outrunning his odds? Nothing.

Not a problem, to disagree makes the world go 'round, but if you put that longshot in an exacta with the winner, then you've got something, honey. A fine exacta. Again, forget place betting, put the choice in your exacta.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Grits

Not a problem, to disagree makes the world go 'round, but if you put that longshot in an exacta with the winner, then you've got something, honey. A fine exacta. Again, forget place betting, put the choice in your exacta.

Honey? Are you a chick?...SO you are saying I should magically find the winner and put him on top and get the exacta? Or wheel my longshot in second as a hedge? Where am I?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Honey? Are you a chick?...SO you are saying I should magically find the winner and put him on top and get the exacta? Or wheel my longshot in second as a hedge? Where am I?

Seriously because I think I'm fairly good at finding a longshot horse but getting him with the winner is a whole different story....

[POINTGIVEN1985]

i totally agree with randall, i look for the prices in a race 4-1 or higher... you need to go place, my basic wager is $50wp and i think i do ok

[Grits]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Honey? Are you a chick?...SO you are saying I should magically find the winner and put him on top and get the exacta? Or wheel my longshot in second as a hedge? Where am I?

Yeah, I'm a chick, you think some guy's gonna come on here with the signature "G.R.I.T.S.": (noun) Girl Raised In The South. (Though, now I look and the server crash removed it, and I've not replaced it yet.)

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, wheel your longshot to run second. Better yet box the two, and forget it. If you win, you've got a nice exacta.

Beyond that, I'm not sure where you are. Hopefully this explains a bit.

[POINTGIVEN1985]

Originally Posted by Grits

Yeah, I'm a chick, you think some guy's gonna come on here with the signature "G.R.I.T.S.": (noun) Girl Raised In The South. (Though, now I look and the server crash removed it, and I've not replaced it yet.)

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, wheel your longshot to run second. Better yet box the two, and forget it. If you win, you've got a nice exacta.

Beyond that, I'm not sure where you are. Hopefully this explains a bit.

yes that might work for you, but some ppl are win place bettors, and some want to get pair a little when there longshot runs a good second i have made alot of money having a 10-1 shot run second and having a $50 wp wager on the horse, when the horse returens $10 and change for second i win $150 instead of losing 100

[ELA]

I've heard both schools of thought -- on betting place (and show for that matter). I've also heard similar thoughts when it comes to exacta wheels and back-wheels.

I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer, but I've used place and show as a "hedge" against my win. I've collected on the place and show wagers and I've lost both of them along with my win bet. I think the exacta discussion is a bit circular -- pick a horse on top, key up on 1 or 2 exactas, have your horse win, but not hit the exacta. I am sure these #'s come out all over the board, but if I can't really feel as confident on my 1 or two key exactas, then I think it makes sense to look for value (especially if I feel the favorite exacta, and the second horse isn't offering value, is probable not to be there, etc.). I certainly don't want to lose as much or near as much on the gimmicks as I've won on the win bet (although those will be low priced horses, #'s, etc.).

Any thoughts from the pro's, serious players, etc.? Thank you.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Grits

Not a problem, to disagree makes the world go 'round, but if you put that longshot in an exacta with the winner, then you've got something, honey. A fine exacta. Again, forget place betting, put the choice in your exacta.

You're absolutely right. Place betting is a mistake. You use the price horse in exactas, and while you may not always cash, when you do it much more than makes up for any lost winnings from place bets.

There should be a bumper sticker that says " Real Horseplayers don't bet to Place ".

[Grits]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You're absolutely right. Place betting is a mistake. You use the price horse in exactas, and while you may not always cash, when you do it much more than makes up for any lost winnings from place bets.

There should be a bumper sticker that says " Real Horseplayers don't bet to Place ".

They don't bet to place, and they surely don't bet to show. (The elderly blue hair ladies at the track bet to show.)

The bet, in this instance, as quoted I believe was $50w/p on one's longshot. Let's say, you bet your longshot in a straight exacta to run second behind the chalk. $100.00 straight exacta bet, not changing the amount of money wagered. This is difficult for many, but one has a really nice exacta many times. In the case of your $50 place money coming in, its paltry next to the exacta, and one doesn't have to hit many of these to make up for their longshot running second.

[philcski]

Last year's Ky Oaks day.

Got to CD with about 8 MTP for the 5th with the intention of playing the P6, got shut out because the teller was incompetent and had to start over and they opened the gates while we were trying again.

Needless to say... it would have been the only winning ticket for about $180k.

Thankfully, all wasn't lost... the P4 still paid a healthy $7.5k.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Grits

They don't bet to place, and they surely don't bet to show. (The elderly blue hair ladies at the track bet to show.)

The bet, in this instance, as quoted I believe was $50w/p on one's longshot. Let's say, you bet your longshot in a straight exacta to run second behind the chalk. $100.00 straight exacta bet, not changing the amount of money wagered. This is difficult for many, but one has a really nice exacta many times. In the case of your $50 place money coming in, its paltry next to the exacta, and one doesn't have to hit many of these to make up for their longshot running second.

Pardon my naivete, but you know, the entire concept of not betting place as opposed to playing the exacta makes sense, conceptually, to me. However, often, for me, not having as much conviction and not being as confident in the exacta selection causes me to make the place bet instead of the exacta. Simpy put, I might be more confident in being able to pick a horse for place (one correct selection vis a vis the bet, who can run first or second) vs. betting the exacta (requiring me to select two correct selections vis a vis the bet, where they have to finish 1-2). I am not sure if that's correct or makes sense to most of the serious players here, but that is kind of my gut feeling.

Does that make any sense or am I being a whimp here?

Also, doesn't the relative size of the bet, risk/reward also play a role? Meaning if I am looking at $100 place (maybe as a hedge), am I also looking at a $100 exacta? Not really, right?

Thanks for the advice.

Eric

[blackthroatedwind]

Look, if somebody has a betting strategy and it ACTUALLY works for them, then who am I, or anyone, to criticize them. However, considering the dramatic difference in what one would make over the long term with a moderately intelligent exacta back-up I do not believe that place bets are the more profitable way to go.

Then there is the extreme horsplayer....Andy Beyer...who could be alive in the last leg of the Pick-6 with three horses and box them in exactas and tris.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Hilarious.

What is a little overkill among friends?

(Does Beyer hedge in that circumstance?)

Hedge? I was serious. I have seen him do it.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I worked with an old-time racing guy -- he knew everything that went on at Roosevelt Raceway when Filion and Abbatiello were the big guns -- who swore by big place bets.

That is because they were often racing for second.

[2MinsToPost]

I was within 100 yards or so of Faith Hill

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

I was within 100 yards or so of Faith Hill

Very good.

[Supah Brother]

1. I played a $12 pick 6 ticket on Belmont Stakes day and I was singled to Smarty Jones. I dont know how much it would have paid but was still my best handicapping day.

2. I played Hoove's pick 4 ticket at gulfstream with a $100 winner had the two favs going in last race both paid 9k.