Ron Santo

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Crown@club

Santo 15 seasons
8143 AB
1138 Runs
2254 Hits
342 HRS
1331 RBI
OBP .362
SLG .464
BA .277

Brooks 23 seasons
10654 AB
1232 Runs
2848 Hits
268 HRS
1357 RBIs
OBP .322
SLG .401
BA .267

See you in Cooperstown Scavs!!!!

That is absolutely sickening. Better in HR's, OBP, SLG, BA and Brooks has EIGHT MORE YEARS, which is why by default he would have more AB, Runs, Hits, RBI's...it is amazing that Santo had more HR's then him, with 8 years less

So what goes into a hunger strike? Don't you climb on top of a billboard and bring signs and stuff and sit up there until he gets voted in??

Yes, Ron Santo was above-average performer in his era. But, his stats don't scream Cooperstown. Less than 2300 hits in 15 seasons at hot corner. Plus, his fielding while workmanlike was not as spectacular as Brooksie.

Doug Rader won 5 consecutive Gold Gloves at 3rd base. I don't think die-hard Astro fan (me) would suggest he belongs in HOF either.

Yes, I agree Ron Santo is great spokesperson for Cubs and baseball. But, he is seeking election as PLAYER here not as Cub ambassador-at-large.

[Cannon Shell]

You guys aren't seriously saying that Ryne Sandberg was a better baseball player than Joe Morgan are you?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You guys aren't seriously saying that Ryne Sandberg was a better baseball player than Joe Morgan are you?

Yes I am, and even with my bias many agree with me. Joe Morgan was a product of the environment, I could hit 15 HR's in the MLB with Bench, Rose, Perez, Concepcion hanging around me.

Sandburg had Mark Grace and a little Dawson

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

Yes I am, and even with my bias many agree with me. Joe Morgan was a product of the environment, I could hit 15 HR's in the MLB with Bench, Rose, Perez, Concepcion hanging around me.

Sandburg had Mark Grace and a little Dawson

Morgan is clearly the best modern day 2nd baseman. He was a great leadoff hitter, was the best baserunner in an era where stealing was important, and was great defensive player. All of which have nothing to do with who plays for your team.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Morgan is clearly the best modern day 2nd baseman. He was a great leadoff hitter, was the best baserunner in an era where stealing was important, and was great defensive player. All of which have nothing to do with who plays for your team.

While it is hard to argue because both players meant different things to their teams, Sandburg was clearly a better all around player. HE WON games on his own when the Cubs sucked. He WON GAMES HIMSELF in a team sport. He was a SMALL notch below defensively, and probably better then Morgan towards the end of his career, but offensively, you will not convince me otherwise that Morgen was better, not a chance

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

While it is hard to argue because both players meant different things to their teams, Sandburg was clearly a better all around player. HE WON games on his own when the Cubs sucked. He WON GAMES HIMSELF in a team sport. He was a SMALL notch below defensively, and probably better then Morgan towards the end of his career, but offensively, you will not convince me otherwise that Morgen was better, not a chance

Morgan is a better player.
Comparing the players against the leagues that they played in:

Batting average
Morgan .271 vs league .260
Sandberg .285 vs league .269
slight advantage to RS

OBP
Morgan .392. vs league .326
Sandberg . 344 vs league .333
huge advantage Morgan

OPS
Morgan .819 vs league .710
Sandberg .796 vs league .741
huge advantage Morgan

Slg %
Morgan .427 vs League .384
Sandberg .452 vs league .404
even

Runs Created per 27 outs
Morgan 6.59
Sandberg 5.58
advantage Morgan

Runs created per 650 Ab
Morgan 100.4
Sandberg 91.8
advantage Morgan

Secondary average
Morgan .431
Sandberg .296
huge advantage Morgan

Sb
Morgan 689 from 801 attempts 86%
Sandberg 344 from 451 attempts 76%
big advantage Morgan

And these stats are a bit skewed in favor of Sandberg because he played his whole career in a very favorable hitters park while Morgan had 6 years of the Astrodome. Plus Morgan did not know when to go and really dragged his numbers down the last 2 years of his career. Sandberg is a great player and a top 6 all time second basemen. But Morgan is only behind the great Rogers Hornsby as a second baseman and is the best of the modern age.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Morgan is clearly the best modern day 2nd baseman. He was a great leadoff hitter, was the best baserunner in an era where stealing was important, and was great defensive player. All of which have nothing to do with who plays for your team.

Absolutely agree. Morgan didn't have the range in the field that Sandberg had but he was very good defensively. Sandberg's offensive statistics were amassed in Wrigley Field, clearly an advantage over the parks Morgan played in. In spite of this, Morgan was clearly a better offensive player than Sandberg. He also performed his best when the bright lights were on him. He shined in the clutch, and especially, in the post season.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

That is absolutely sickening. Better in HR's, OBP, SLG, BA and Brooks has EIGHT MORE YEARS, which is why by default he would have more AB, Runs, Hits, RBI's...it is amazing that Santo had more HR's then him, with 8 years less

So what goes into a hunger strike? Don't you climb on top of a billboard and bring signs and stuff and sit up there until he gets voted in??

Santo played in Wrigley/Robinson in Memorial stadium which would certainly put Robinson at a big disadvantage

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Santo played in Wrigley/Robinson in Memorial stadium which would certainly put Robinson at a big disadvantage

8 years, that advantage is not 8 years, maybe 2 HR's a year extra to the ballpark.....

[PeteMugg]

Rizzuto and Mazeroski in ... Hodges and Santo out. I'm not sure what the criteria is.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by PeteMugg

Rizzuto and Mazeroski in ... Hodges and Santo out. I'm not sure what the criteria is.

Mazeroski, a perfect EXAMPLE....

[ddthetide]

Originally Posted by Scav

Mazeroski, a perfect EXAMPLE....

mazeroski is one of the best defensive 2nd basemen ever and has the most dramatic HR in world series history.

[Scav]

The fact that I want to convey that IN HIS TIME, he was probably the best 3rd baseman playing...I don't all that played in that time, and would listen to people trying to argue others that played in his 'era' but those stats deserve the HOF. ALL THE WHILE playing with diabetes that he never leaked out.

The reason he isn't in is because he has pissed off some old timers with remarks that I have never even heard, and probably becuase all those old timers have no more fans, and Santo has even GROWN BIGGER in the radio market.....Him and Pat Hughes are absolutely outstanding, not a better radio team as far as enjoyment and play by play (Hughes). Hughes alone should get some sort of award for always having to keep Santo from going on a tangent (ala Harry Carry)

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

The fact that I want to convey that IN HIS TIME, he was probably the best 3rd baseman playing...

No one outside of diehard cub fans would argue that in that era Santo was a better 3rd baseman than Brooks Robinson.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

8 years, that advantage is not 8 years, maybe 2 HR's a year extra to the ballpark.....

Robinsons first 3 years and last 2 he did not play much.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Robinsons first 3 years and last 2 he did not play much.

Santo had like 5 years were he was battling diseases or injuries

I would not raise hell if Santo got in. But he just does not roll easily in like Sandberg. Santo's consistency would be the trump card imo (unlike Reggie Jackson who turned it on when needed).
Sandberg would be the 3rd best second baseman of all time, behind the slugger Rogers Hornsby and Bill of Pirate fame...