Gulfstream Screws the Bettors

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Today's 9th race was taken off the turf after the 7th race had been run thus screwing bettors who played the late Pick-3, Pick-4 and Pick-6. It seems Gulfstream toyed with taking the 7th off but as there was only nine minutes to post for that race. at that time, they left it on. However, they did not seem to understand the urgency of the decision about the 9th at that time, as bettors who were playing the late Pick-3 at least could still be saved.

When you couple this decision with the haphazard removal of turf races on two previous race days, both of which were followed by turf racing on the very next day conducted on a course labeled FIRM, it is hard to have confidence in any decision they make. However, at least in those cases the biggest loser was themselves, in terms of lost handle, while today it is almost exclusively the bettors that get screwed. At a time when our game needs all the help it can get it is even further annoying to see one of the year's premier meets being handled this ineptly ( and unfairly ).

I played the late p3 and had the same sinking feeling when they announced the change to the turf after the 7th race was run. I was all prepared to write my own missive, but one of my picks scratched for a conso, and the others ran 1-2, so my ire was squashed. NYRA has gotten their act together on this sort of thing, and its time Gulfstream did likewise. At least Larry Collmus announced the p3/p4 wagers ramifications to the bettors. At Tampa last week there were gate scratches and I didn't know what their rules were as far as the p3's went, I knew the p4 was the post time fave(don't get me started on that can of worms). The track announcer should make customers aware of the rules when this happens, and should also offer an explanation, much like the stewards do on a take down, after all it does affect our money that is being invested. Tracks should also be made to list all wagering rules on their websites for their customers to have available to them. Has anyone even heard one peep out of the new President at Gulfstream ? This guy is a ghost !

Originally Posted by point given

Has anyone even heard one peep out of the new President at Gulfstream ? This guy is a ghost !

Stronach has him in obedience school and there have been a few setbacks. He should be ready in time for next year...just got a get a few kinks worked out.

[SentToStud]

They're not screwing anybody.

Anyone think a bunch of Magna guys saw it start to rain (and hard for a while AFTER the 7th) went into a conference room and decided to use the weather as an excuse to screw the bettors?

So the race came off after p-4 and p-6 wagers were made.

That's the way it goes sometimes.

You makes your bets and you takes your chances.

[MISTERGEE]

i dont think they mad a conscience decision to screw bettors, but anyone who has been to gulfstream a few times as i have knows full well that at the very least they dont seem to be making their best efforts toward accomadating the horse player. i could play $10,000 a day through the pari-mutuels and i dont think one person there would give a crap. but if i throw a dollar in the slots---aha, or at least thats the way they make you feel, and i could give many examples of this, beside what happened today

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

i dont think they mad a conscience decision to screw bettors, but anyone who has been to gulfstream a few times as i have knows full well that at the very least they dont seem to be making their best efforts toward accomadating the horse player. i could play $10,000 a day through the pari-mutuels and i dont think one person there would give a crap. but if i throw a dollar in the slots---aha, or at least thats the way they make you feel, and i could give many examples of this, beside what happened today

Please give some examples of how you perceive you have been slighted as a horse player.

I see to today as a race getting taken off the grass because it rained hard. No more than that.

What else?

Some people just don't like the place I guess. But using the weather to throw stones at them? Really, now. What else?

They've got the turf course to run during heavy rains but they choose not to do so.

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Some people just don't like the place I guess. But using the weather to throw stones at them? Really, now. What else?

Horseplayers don't like it, not anything about it; but stange isn't it, how they still keep the churn in motion through GP's windows daily.

Horseplayers BEING horseplayers have to have something to b@#$% about. Its what horseplayers do best. Stewards, front office management, takeout, weather, brushfire smoke from Santa Ana winds, Jan Rushton's hats, etc, etc, etc. There's no end to it. LOLOL

If the weather was suspect, I may have considered that before putting my ticket together. .....Hhhhmmm, 7ths off, more than likely, the finale too.

Let it pass, its not worth raising your blood pressure.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Grits

Horseplayers don't like it, not anything about it; but stange isn't it, how they still keep the churn in motion through GP's windows daily.

Horseplayers BEING horseplayers have to have something to b@#$% about. Its what horseplayers do best. Stewards, front office management, takeout, weather, brushfire smoke from Santa Ana winds, Jan Rushton's hats, etc, etc, etc. There's no end to it. LOLOL

If the weather was suspect, I may have considered that before putting my ticket together. .....Hhhhmmm, 7ths off, more than likely, the finale too.

Let it pass, its not worth raising your blood pressure.

The 7th was NOT off....it was run on the turf.

Ok, my mistake. But you say nothing else.

It was the WEATHER for heaven sake. God forbid you're screwed, when a decision is made that can possibly be in the better interest of horse and jock because of heavy rain prior. ...I don't like seeing anyone screwed, but count on it, its living.

Done on this one.

[MISTERGEE]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Please give some examples of how you perceive you have been slighted as a horse player.

I see to today as a race getting taken off the grass because it rained hard. No more than that.

What else?

Some people just don't like the place I guess. But using the weather to throw stones at them? Really, now. What else?

as an example i will not be going to gulfstream to play night simulcasting this wekk as i usually do because:1) there is no guarantee they will have any betting windows open in their restaurant area which has thousands of seats and is the best place to watch racingif it were run properly. i have been there before where there were no windows open self serve or otherwise, 2) they claim they have no ability to change the channels on the overhead tv's, sometimes they will have just 1 or 2 tracks shown and be missing all the others, 3) they close down mid-card, if there are not enough players they will just close up in the middle of the cards, they had originally committed to open till i believe 11:30 or midnight to show simulcasting, but if it is not busy enough they just close last week about 10pm. imagine being in a macys before closing and they say hey get out we doont have enough shoppers!! they should keep there committment to whatever time they decide to open until, 4) to keep this as short as possible i suggest you read andrew beyers article about how gulfstream is set up in the daily racing form from a couple weeks ago. he hits the nail on the head as to their many other shortcomings.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

as an example i will not be going to gulfstream to play night simulcasting this wekk as i usually do because:1) there is no guarantee they will have any betting windows open in their restaurant area which has thousands of seats and is the best place to watch racingif it were run properly. i have been there before where there were no windows open self serve or otherwise, 2) they claim they have no ability to change the channels on the overhead tv's, sometimes they will have just 1 or 2 tracks shown and be missing all the others, 3) they close down mid-card, if there are not enough players they will just close up in the middle of the cards, they had originally committed to open till i believe 11:30 or midnight to show simulcasting, but if it is not busy enough they just close last week about 10pm. imagine being in a macys before closing and they say hey get out we doont have enough shoppers!! they should keep there committment to whatever time they decide to open until, 4) to keep this as short as possible i suggest you read andrew beyers article about how gulfstream is set up in the daily racing form from a couple weeks ago. he hits the nail on the head as to their many other shortcomings.

I've never been there for night simulcasting but what you say sounds dreadfully bad. I don't blame you for being pissed off. Aside from a monthly outing to Pompano on $1 beer night, I'm not a night player. But I'd be pissed off at that too. As for the Beyer article, I read it but frankly I'm no fan of any of recent work.

[MISTERGEE]

the 1$ beer night part sounds great, does pompano take thoroughbred action?
the reason i mentioned beyer is in that article he does mention all the inconveniences of gulfstream, he doesnt speak of handicapping.

[MisterB]

Ever been on a wet turf, when it's like the hard rock cafe. It ain't pretty. Talk about Black ice. Safty first, betters last.

BTW, you been at the Spa to many years to know we see that all the time up here. That's why I and maybe we, never play a late P4 if the weather buddy say's rain , or t storms coming.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by MisterB

BTW, you been at the Spa to many years to know we see that all the time up here. That's why I and maybe we, never play a late P4 if the weather buddy say's rain , or t storms coming.

If that was to happen in NY...the P4 would become a P3

[philcski]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

If that was to happen in NY...the P4 would become a P3

That's the rule on the P6, I believe in the P4 the wager stays live.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by philcski

That's the rule on the P6, I believe in the P4 the wager stays live.

The Pick-4 and Pick-6 are subject to the same rule in this situation.

Originally Posted by SentToStud

They're not screwing anybody.

Anyone think a bunch of Magna guys saw it start to rain (and hard for a while AFTER the 7th) went into a conference room and decided to use the weather as an excuse to screw the bettors?

So the race came off after p-4 and p-6 wagers were made.

That's the way it goes sometimes.

You makes your bets and you takes your chances.

I agree with BTW, they blew it today. It was raining pretty hard when they had the post parade for the 7th race. They did do one good thing in announcing that the track was sealed for the 8th race. They didnot complete their task as good managers though by deciding before the 7th race to take the 9th race off the turf, they waited until all bets were in and then announced the change after the fact. They most likely figured that they would lose alot of Pick 3 handle had they done so. This is an old topic and one which racetrack management should be prepared to make quickly to treat their customers fairly, oops, forgot this is Magna , where the core customer comes last and the clubhouse dinner crowd and sluts, er....slots crowd is catered to.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

They're not screwing anybody.

Anyone think a bunch of Magna guys saw it start to rain (and hard for a while AFTER the 7th) went into a conference room and decided to use the weather as an excuse to screw the bettors?

So the race came off after p-4 and p-6 wagers were made.

That's the way it goes sometimes.

You makes your bets and you takes your chances.

Yes they ARE screwing people. Anybody that bet the late Pick-3, Pick-4 or Pick-6 was " screwed " as the race that ended up being run as the 9th race was quite simply NOT the race that was run. I never said they made a conscious decision to screw the bettors, as that would be absurd, and only someone desperately trying to infer something would suggest I did, however the result of their decision was that some bettors got screwed.

I spoke to the second in charge of maintenance at Gulfstream and his decision was not based whatsoever with the bettors' interests in mind. While certainly there are other factors, at the very least we are part of the equation. Since this gentleman also told me they thought about taking the 7th off but as there were only nine minutes til post they left it on, they surely could have, and should have, made their decision in regards to the 9th at that time, as least some late Pick-3 bettors could have been protected. it is 100% clear that the best interests of the bettors were disregarded, and while that may be a risk of the game, it does not change what happened. Considering their questionable removal of turf races in the past, where races were run the next day on turf labeled FIRM, all their decisions in this matter are dubious at best.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

They really should have cancelled that portion of the pick3 etc.,and gave out consolations to those who had the 1st two winners of the pick 3 etc. I am almost certain that Keeneland did this last fall,and it is not outrageous to cancel that portion of the multirace wager.People cap for a specific surface,and if they want to run it on another surface,then they need to not have multirace wagers on it.It really is simple.If people are not told that a race is gunna be on another surface(before they make a multirace wager that includes the race,) then they need to take that portion out of the multirace,and give consolations..............This whole idea of ........"you bet,and you're gunna get scrwd sometimes" is sad,and that garbage thinking is for losers.

[blackthroatedwind]

I agree there is always some risk, as Sent2Stud said, and it is just the nonchallant disregard to bettors' interests that irks me. Since I was told by maintenance that they considered taking off the 7th the least they could have done was made the decision on the 9th earlier than they did. It seems evident that our interests weren't even really disregarded....they simply never even considered them. And THAT is not right.

Plus, since they are often hasty in taking races off the grass, their decisions are at least open to debate. The basic problem is that little done by Gulfstream management reflects any interest in the concerns of bettors.