Invasor 1 to 9

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

the race reminded me of a story my uncle liked to tell.

he asked a friend if horse X fell down who would win
he said horse X because he'll get back up and beat these bums.

I think Jara has some explaining to do. Invasor could have went to the outside rail got a hot dog and a coke and still beat these horses without the the theatrics

Invasor could have been injured or worse

So your premise is that getting stopped for a nanosecond and winning by 2 lengths,with, essentially a suck up rail trip throughout, equates to going 6 on the turn, 7 entering and winning going away?

Makes sense to me.

This is not to say he wasn't the best horse in the race. But, he's not as good as everyone thinks and the field basically sucked; and he certainly didn't have anywhere near the trouble raised here.

[Gander]

Hes the real deal. You dont see acceleration from horses like that every weekend. Hes a special one and I am finally convinced. Too bad I couldnt cash as a result but I do know how to identify a truly wonderful horse and he is one.

[Sightseek]

all I have to say is, Thank You Shadwell for keeping this horse in training!

[The Bid]

God I just watched the race again, that horse lost at least 7 lengths. Still won by 2

Its comical to say he didnt run that good of a race

The field was bad, but you watch that replay and tell me the turn of foot that horse showed after being dead stopped and clipping isnt incredible

The most insane thing about it is he wasnt cranked to run his biggest race. That horse is a damn freak, period.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Bid

God I just watched the race again, that horse lost at least 7 lengths. Still won by 2

Its comical to say he didnt run that good of a race

The field was bad, but you watch that replay and tell me the turn of foot that horse showed after being dead stopped and clipping isnt incredible

The most insane thing about it is he wasnt cranked to run his biggest race. That horse is a damn freak, period.

7 lengths of trouble? Turn of foot?
How do you quantify trouble in a race to exact lengths?
His 'turn of foot' was achieved in a race where they were crawling home. The last 3/8ths in 38 seconds, last 1/8th in 12.3. The very next race a 100-1 shot ran his last 3/8ths in 36.4 and his last 1/8th in 12.2 going the same distance.
In essence the other horses were stopping so badly he looked like he was closing fast, which he wasn't.
He is a very good horse who overcame troble to swamp a bunch of listed type horse. No more, no less.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

7 lengths of trouble? Turn of foot?
How do you quantify trouble in a race to exact lengths?
His 'turn of foot' was achieved in a race where they were crawling home. The last 3/8ths in 38 seconds, last 1/8th in 12.3. The very next race a 100-1 shot ran his last 3/8ths in 36.4 and his last 1/8th in 12.2 going the same distance.
In essence the other horses were stopping so badly he looked like he was closing fast, which he wasn't.
He is a very good horse who overcame troble to swamp a bunch of listed type horse. No more, no less.

the fractions for both races might help.
The Donn
22.8/46.5/110.5/135.8/148.43

10th race allowance
24.0/49.0/113.9/138.3/150.8

The crawling home as you put it had a lot to do with how fast the earlier part of the race was run. Invasor crawled home to a final time that was 2.3 seconds faster than the other race.

I don't see it as some illusion caused by passing slow running horses. Jara held him from about midway on the turn, tryed to go out upon entering the stretch, finding no way to get out had to check up even more while angling back to the inside. As I watched the race it looked like an impossible position to rally from and win. The horses on the outside pathes had the momentum and time was running out. He was in real trouble pinned in behind a wall of horses.

What I found remarkable was how little time it took him to get out of the trouble and get the lead back, which he did in plenty of time to wrap it up again. He did close fast for the required amount of time it took him to get out of trouble.

In my view, you just don't see horses do, what he did in that race.

[Scav]

I just watched the race and not about to read all this hilariousness BUT

1) Jara should be taken out back and shot in the melon, that is the LAST thing he was suppose to do, real smart to clip heels and tear a ligament or something

2) Pretty F'n impressive, BUT he did run up a golden rail, at least it was earlier on, not sure because I got HANDED today and stopped wagering and started drinking

[Danzig]

invasor is the real deal. he has been, his classic showed that.
the dramatics today were unnecessary, and we've seen better from him-and that field was a bunch of mules. but to imply he isn't that good because of how the race turned out today is incorrect imo.
and i agree with sightseek, thanks shadwell!!

it's his first race of the year, not fully up to snuff. he won, as he should have. on to bigger and better.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Scav

I just watched the race and not about to read all this hilariousness BUT

1) Jara should be taken out back and shot in the melon, that is the LAST thing he was suppose to do, real smart to clip heels and tear a ligament or something

2) Pretty F'n impressive, BUT he did run up a golden rail, at least it was earlier on, not sure because I got HANDED today and stopped wagering and started drinking

at the very least, keiran should put him over his knee.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Invasor crawled home to a final time that was 2.3 seconds faster than the other race.

Well, the other race was an N1X Allowance for newly turned 3yo's.....and the 108/1 winner of that race was 8-0-0-2 lifetime on fast tracks, his career top Beyer was just a 72.

Obviously, Invasor's race came home so tremendously slow for the Grade 1 Older Male level, because the early pace was very fast. However, Invasor benifited from that fast pace....as much or more so than any other horse in the race.

And while he overcame major leauge trouble---he did it in a collapsing race....and his "heroic late surge to victory" came through really slow late fractions for that type of race.

It was a great sight to watch....and he's obviously a very good horse....but, when circumstances are considered, that was far from a truly great performance.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Well, the other race was an N1X Allowance for newly turned 3yo's.....and the 108/1 winner of that race was 8-0-0-2 lifetime on fast tracks, his career top Beyer was just a 72.

Obviously, Invasor's race came home so tremendously slow for the Grade 1 Older Male level, because the early pace was very fast. However, Invasor benifited from that fast pace....as much or more so than any other horse in the race.

And while he overcame major leauge trouble---he did it in a collapsing race....and his "heroic late surge to victory" came through really slow late fractions for that type of race.

It was a great sight to watch....and he's obviously a very good horse....but, when circumstances are considered, that was far from a truly great performance.

So it was a great sight to watch, and he overcame major league trouble, but not a great performance. OK.

No one was expecting a race for the ages here. Invasor just showed yet another dimension to his will to win.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Turn of foot?

That's the thing I love about him, which I wrote about on my blog this past fall -- that he isn't a flashy horse, he doesn't have a turn of foot really at all. He isn't going to blow you away with jaw-dropping acceleration a la Ghostzapper but he gets on the track and delivers the same workmanlike performance every time.

He shows up, and he wins. He's not as exciting as many horses we've seen, but he sure knows how to win.

With that said, he didn't beat much today, but when horses are on the track with him...most don't seem like much,

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

That's the thing I love about him, which I wrote about on my blog this past fall -- that he isn't a flashy horse, he doesn't have a turn of foot really at all. He isn't going to blow you away with jaw-dropping acceleration a la Ghostzapper but he gets on the track and delivers the same workmanlike performance every time.

He shows up, and he wins. He's not as exciting as many horses we've seen, but he sure knows how to win.

With that said, he didn't beat much today, but when horses are on the track with him...most don't seem like much,

And, he gets better with distance. He is just as happy if you want to keep running. No problem.

What I think it is about him is that it's like you say, not some flashy acceleration move, but that he doesn't slow down as fast as other horses. He runs fast during all phases of a race. He is one of the strongest I've seen in terms of his middle and late pace in the race. He is just real solid.

[The Bid]

Cannon

That horse lost all of his momentum when he clipped. At that point Jara had to ask that horse to run. From the point when Invasor lost his momentum, to the point he ran past the leader his turn of foot was tremendous. I dont care what they came home in, how bad the field was, how good the set up was. You know when a horse gets stopped like that it takes more than an average performance to win.

As far as how many lengths he lost, who knows. Its not a math equation, weve all watched enough races to know losing momentum like that and clipping is going to cost you to lose lenghts. Not only that, but after he regained his stride he was still stopped in behind horses.

Had that horse been in the middle of the track he would have won by whatever Jara wanted. 10, 15, 20, whatever margin. You pick it

[jay122797]

arljim's got it right re: the fractions...and just about everything else. KD cud have taken the rail b4 Invasor made his move on the inside...and after losing ground was gaining at the end after swinging outside. Great ride by Jara, horrible by Desormeaux.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

His 'turn of foot' was achieved in a race where they were crawling home. The last 3/8ths in 38 seconds, last 1/8th in 12.3. The very next race a 100-1 shot ran his last 3/8ths in 36.4 and his last 1/8th in 12.2 going the same distance.

In essence the other horses were stopping so badly he looked like he was closing fast, which he wasn't. He is a very good horse who overcame trouble to swamp a bunch of listed type horse. No more, no less.

Had stopped for a bite to eat on way home, and was reviewing the charts for the day. Was startled by the numbers I saw and pointed out above. I don't think it's possible to give a more succinct overview of what we saw in the Donn than that above by C.S.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You did watch the same race right? He bobbled turning for home and was completely stopped. You see a lot of horses bobble, lose all momentum and still win a grade 1 race? I don't. If he's not so good who is better. All the horse does is win. Makes sense to me.

completely stopped?

where did that happen?

he barely lost 1/2 a stride

pssttt

trip handicapping 101 ---inside trips with blocks, bumps, etc. should not be held in high accord.


on a more important note, how do I turn off the option where I get emails everytime I post in a thread and someone
responds to it?

I'm getting pumped up here. Let me go back and watch the JOSE race where the jock STRANGLES him on the backside yet curiously can't keep him in during the stretch run while continually busting him righty with the whip.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

completely stopped?

where did that happen?

he barely lost 1/2 a stride

pssttt

trip handicapping 101 ---inside trips with blocks, bumps, etc. should not be held in high accord.


on a more important note, how do I turn off the option where I get emails everytime I post in a thread and someone
responds to it?

I'm getting pumped up here. Let me go back and watch the JOSE race where the jock STRANGLES him on the backside yet curiously can't keep him in during the stretch run while continually busting him righty with the whip.

Go to your control panel and shut off email notifications.

[randallscott35]

the fat man=troll alert

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

the fat man=troll alert

battle stations everyone!!