hillary or osama er bama....

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Timm, why don't you offer some specifics on exactly why you don't like Hilary, instead of just saying "God help us" if she's elected. I can give you specific things about Giuliani and McCain that I don't like, actions that they have taken while elected officials. Offer the same stuff on Hilary, please- which of her positions do you opposed? Otherwise you come across sounding as though you get your talking points from Rush Limbaugh, and he's not known for his journalistic integrity.

I gots news for ya, my friend- politicians are ALL power-mad schemers. It's how they get elected. I find it very sexist of you that you clearly consider that a negative thing in a woman but not a man.

she was already prez once....just ask bill..

[timmgirvan]

Hooves: thank you...thankyouverymuch!

Hillary is a doer. She personally called up many of the major employers in NY and met with them and asked how she could help them hire additional folks to expand business. What was and was not getting in the way. She did some amazing work with Corning. Talked with Union folks backed them down on certain criteria and basically made it easier to hire qualified folks that would help companies. She did an amazing job.

She is extraordinarily capable. Her health care plan was a plan. And the Republican plan... nowhere. She is the one Democrat with a definite ability to GET THINGS DONE. Now you might not like her ideas, but she has ideas. I also believe she has made many credible aquaintances with quality folks that can get jobs done. ONe thing George did a pitiful job of was picking people for what he thought were minor posts that were completely inept friends or political contributors. FEMA turned out not to be so minor. The list is deep.

I think she will pick good people in all spots. Loyality only goes so far, you have got to move competent people into place.

And I probably will not vote for her. Obama is a definite no. I see a great orator, and smart man... but my God he just has NO experience.

Mean people with experience also can get jobs done. Abraham L. put some of his most ardent enemies into major posts because he knew they were terribly capable at things that he needed them for. I know politics does not work this way anymore, and it is sad. CAPABLE people may be better than people who talk YOUR game, but cannot get things done.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I think she will pick good people in all spots. Loyality only goes so far, you have got to move competent people into place.

And I probably will not vote for her. Obama is a definite no. I see a great orator, and smart man... but my God he just has NO experience.

Mean people with experience also can get jobs done. Abraham L. put some of his most ardent enemies into major posts because he knew they were terribly capable at things that he needed them for. I know politics does not work this way anymore, and it is sad. CAPABLE people may be better than people who talk YOUR game, but cannot get things done.

I like Hillary, but all personal likes or dislikes aside I still don't see how anyone can deny the points you've made, that she gets things done and tries to cross the necessary bridges to get there....some people just don't let her over to the other side because party loyalty seems more important these days then getting things done right for the country.

And as for the end of the your post -- I wish it worked that way. I really do. But it's a pipe dream at this point.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Hillary is a doer. She personally called up many of the major employers in NY and met with them and asked how she could help them hire additional folks to expand business. What was and was not getting in the way. She did some amazing work with Corning. Talked with Union folks backed them down on certain criteria and basically made it easier to hire qualified folks that would help companies. She did an amazing job.

I will give you some news about NY states economy during the Hillary era.

www.bcnys.org/whatsnew/2004/0426economypr.htm

In a nutshell it tells how poorly the NY economy was doing in the 1st part of the decade through 2004.

[Cannon Shell]

Here is a bit about the state of Hillary's state in regards to her pet project of healthcare.

www.bcnys.org/whatsnew/2006/1012medicaid.htm

[Cannon Shell]

I would have to say that I am still waiting for Hillary's impact to be felt in NY. Though she travels (campaigns?) extensively as junior senator in NY she has accomplished virtually nothing. She is strictly a politician of the polls and she choose NY as it is the most liberal leaning major state outside of CA where she can maintain a high profile. She has pissed off far left-liberals by moving to the right on issues when the polls say so and is pretty much universally hated by the right no matter what. I personally think that she would be the worst choice by Democrats as she is sure to mobilize the now shaken republicians to a common goal of beating her. Of course Kerry or Gore might be as bad but I dont think anyone is giving them a real chance.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I would have to say that I am still waiting for Hillary's impact to be felt in NY. Though she travels (campaigns?) extensively as junior senator in NY she has accomplished virtually nothing. She is strictly a politician of the polls and she choose NY as it is the most liberal leaning major state outside of CA where she can maintain a high profile. She has pissed off far left-liberals by moving to the right on issues when the polls say so and is pretty much universally hated by the right no matter what. I personally think that she would be the worst choice by Democrats as she is sure to mobilize the now shaken republicians to a common goal of beating her. Of course Kerry or Gore might be as bad but I dont think anyone is giving them a real chance.

Cannon: thanks for posting the links....Pgardn was right. Hillary IS a doer....and NY was DONE!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Here is a bit about the state of Hillary's state in regards to her pet project of healthcare.

www.bcnys.org/whatsnew/2006/1012medicaid.htm

News for you Cannon-- Hillary has NO control over how NYState's Medicare and Medicaid is administered. What party has been in charge of NY State over the past decade? Oh, riiiiiight....

Oh, while we're on the subject, which party pushed through the big increase in Medicare with that giveaway to the drug companies? Riiiiiight....

(Which is not to say NY's health care isn't completely f*cked up, but to imply that's Hillary's fault is absurd)

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

News for you Cannon-- Hillary has NO control over how NYState's Medicare and Medicaid is administered. What party has been in charge of NY State over the past decade? Oh, riiiiiight....

Oh, while we're on the subject, which party pushed through the big increase in Medicare with that giveaway to the drug companies? Riiiiiight....

(Which is not to say NY's health care isn't completely f*cked up, but to imply that's Hillary's fault is absurd)

GR: I don't think his intention was to blame her,,,just to show that she's not the mover and shaker she perports to be!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

GR: I don't think his intention was to blame her,,,just to show that she's not the mover and shaker she perports to be!

And he may have excellent stuff to back that up, but other than getting earmarks for their states, Senators don't have a lot of control over their state economy and their state's health plans; that power belongs to the state representatives and governor (and even they don't have much control in some cases). A better example, really, would be of her wussy yes-and-no weird vote on the flag-burning thing. I mean, take a position, lady!

(Now, see how easy that was?)

"purports"

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

GR: I don't think his intention was to blame her,,,just to show that she's not the mover and shaker she perports to be!

I dont know what she says about herself. I know what I have heard from friends and relatives that work for Corning, and they have given me examples of other companies that she has worked with. Then I heard about much of the stuff on NPR that my relatives had already told me about. OOPs NPR and my relatives cant be trusted. And how did you get your information that she does nothing? And if Canon has not felt her effects directly I can tell you that I have not felt any effects directly of our great senators in the State of Texas, Kay Bailey and John Cornyn. So because Canon has not felt direct effects she has done nothing... Hmmmm.

Bottom line Timm: you may not like her, but the lady gets work done. I can understand why people do not like her poll watching. But do not confuse this with her willingness to work her rear off to get things accomplished instead of JUST playing the critic, like many Democratic candidates.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Bababooyee

And, fwiw, I was steeped in conspiracy theories in the early to mid 90s, and have heard all about the Klintons and Arkansas Suicides. I've also followed many of the current Bush conspiracy theories.

Stepping back from the actual content and looking at the whole thing more broadly, it is interesting how those on the right bought the Klinton stuff and those on the left were unshakingly skeptical; now, those on the left buy the Bush stuff and those on the right are unshakingly skeptical. (Ima sure one could write an interesting book on the effect the information age has had on conspiracy theories, increased numbers of them and/or their wider dissemination).

For example, I don't see you (or brian to a lesser extent) being nearly as skeptical or critical when DTS starts posting his moronic links or crazy (and/or substance induced) rants. But someone says something against a Clinton, and...

And please consider that I used you (GR) and brian as my examples as a compliment; while you may lean left, you both seem rather intelligent, so I kinda expect more than from the average leftist.

I'll respond later, because it's an understandable accusation, but I have to go to vocal coaching and scare a few people with my "singing"...

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I will give you some news about NY states economy during the Hillary era.

www.bcnys.org/whatsnew/2004/0426economypr.htm

In a nutshell it tells how poorly the NY economy was doing in the 1st part of the decade through 2004.

Because, of course, a single senator has complete control over her state's economy, far more than the Governor and State Congress. What party ran NY's Governorship and Congress during 2000-2004? Oh, riiiiiight....

[timmgirvan]

GR: I wondered when you'd come wanderin in!