Steve Haskin;s Top Derby Contendars

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

he got 5 in there one year......i think that says it all...

I guess one year is good to have 5. But I dont believe any of those 5 won.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

just getting them there is the question you were saying no...if thats the case he has pleanty of exp mapping out the graded moneys...no wait he should ask you..i forgot...my bad..

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

just getting them there is the question you were saying no...if thats the case he has pleanty of exp mapping out the graded moneys...no wait he should ask you..i forgot...my bad..

He does have experience and at one time he was one of the best. But you can't always live in the 1990's.

[slotdirt]

Since it's surely been since the '90's since Nick Zito had any success.

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Since it's surely been since the '90's since Nick Zito had any success.

His success has been been fading the past couple of years and it will continue to decline. That was my prediction a couple of months ago and so far $6,000 per start is backing me up.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

His success has been been fading the past couple of years and it will continue to decline. That was my prediction a couple of months ago and so far $6,000 per start is backing me up.

Doug O'Neill's average per start is $7,380. Contessa's is $5,541. Motion's is $7,304. Mclaughlin's is $6,969.

So, with all of the HUGE stakes races that have been run so far to boost average earnings per start.....these 16 days (and his mind-blowingly huge number of 20 starts) of 2007 are the indicator that Zito doesn't know what he is doing and has no clue about this horse?

The logic doesn't work.

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Doug O'Neill's average per start is $7,380. Contessa's is $5,541. Motion's is $7,304. Mclaughlin's is $6,969.

So, with all of the HUGE stakes races that have been run so far to boost average earnings per start.....these 16 days (and his mind-blowingly huge number of 20 starts) of 2007 are the indicator that Zito doesn't know what he is doing and has no clue about this horse?

The logic doesn't work.

O'Neill is 2nd, Contessa is 3rd, Motion is 8th and McLaughlin is 16th in trainers stats. All ahead of the 31st person which is Zito.

[Linny]

Why would a colt who broke his MD with a 66 BSF at Calder then ran 3rd in a slowish allowance race be getting alot of mention from Nick. He's certainly well bred but nothing he's done so far screams "Derby" and maybe Nick knows it.

He's bred for routing (by Awesome Again) and maybe (again a guess, I don't speak to Nick daily or spy on his records) he's a bit slow growing and is in need of time. I don't recall hearing his name on the several occasions when I was in the Zito barn at SAR. Does that mean he wasn't there, no, but no one was talking about him. THAT speaks volumes.

It is unreal that anyone would say that just because THEY are not informed about a given horse's plans that he's "languishing." Trainers owe the public nothing in terms of info. What they do choose to discuss with the press is usually dependent upon what the media asks. Zito is not sending out media releases. If Grening (or others) come knocking he will answer their questions but he's not likely to bring up horses that are not on the writer's list.


BTW, the $200k San Fernando is the richest race run this year. Exactly how many stakes has Zito entered this year?

[Cajungator26]

I feel bad for bringing up King Alliance.

[slotdirt]

Did euro just use Zito's 2007 stats in this argument?

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Did euro just use Zito's 2007 stats in this argument?

Combine 31st in trainer stats with the 20th last year and you can see a nice pattern developing here. He was 8th in 2005, 9th in 2004, 14th in 2003 and 23rd in 2002. I think the year 2002, 2006 and so far in 2007 is more reflective of his training skill. He fits between 20-40. A couple of good years. But Zito is avg at best. I can name 20 trainers I would rather have than Zito. And apparently so can many owners.

[slotdirt]

Do you realize what a small sample size 20 starts is for a trainer that averages in the 400-500 range over the course of a year?

[Linny]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Combine 31st in trainer stats with the 20th last year and you can see a nice pattern developing here. He was 8th in 2005, 9th in 2004, 14th in 2003 and 23rd in 2002. I think the year 2002, 2006 and so far in 2007 is more reflective of his training skill. He fits between 20-40. A couple of good years. But Zito is avg at best. I can name 20 trainers I would rather have than Zito. And apparently so can many owners.

Todd Pletcher has no wins this year, he must suck too. If Zito's owners would rather have 20 other trainers, why don't they? Oh yeah, he's got the horses locked in the barn in the dark, hiding them from you.

Originally Posted by Linny

Todd Pletcher has no wins this year, he must suck too. If Zito's owners would rather have 20 other trainers, why don't they? Oh yeah, he's got the horses locked in the barn in the dark, hiding them from you.

Come on, Pletcher is suspended. Bad example right there.

[KY_Sasquash]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Combine 31st in trainer stats with the 20th last year and you can see a nice pattern developing here. He was 8th in 2005, 9th in 2004, 14th in 2003 and 23rd in 2002. I think the year 2002, 2006 and so far in 2007 is more reflective of his training skill. He fits between 20-40. A couple of good years. But Zito is avg at best. I can name 20 trainers I would rather have than Zito. And apparently so can many owners.

Zito had 3 graded stakes winners and trainers that had more than him were: Pletcher, Frankel, Mott, R.Mandella, Biancone, McLaughlin, Matz, Canani, ONeill, Clement, bin Surroor, Baffert, and Tagg.
He doesnt have the stable size of Pletcher and doesnt have a stable on the West Coast, doesnt receive horses from the Sheiks, and two of his top clients (Live Oak-distributes their horses amongst 4-5 trainers and LaPenta-he buys yearlings for him and the pinhook them at the 2yo sales, keeping the ones that dont meet their reserve (on a side note they've done very well with this plan)) Thus he's doing pretty well in his spot, considering he's in the top 13 for graded stakes winners.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

wtf are you typing about..zito living in the 90s ..he had 5 starters in the derby less than 2 years ago...dude just shut your pie hole..your arguments are not valid...

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

wtf are you typing about..zito living in the 90s ..he had 5 starters in the derby less than 2 years ago...dude just shut your pie hole..your arguments are not valid...

And how many starters did he have last year? How many graded stakes did he win last year?