kudos to byk.....

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

don't misunderstand me...I think that there should be graded opportunities for 2YO on turf...but I also think that one should lay a foundation before building a house...it should be a progression, not just bang here's your BC 2YO turf...
but we get our butts kicked because we don't really breed for, or train for turf...dirt is king in the US and probably will be for a long time

Well in this case I don't think that foundation was getting built if they didn't get a kick in the butt. So they just built the house and now that foundation has to get built. I think it will be rocky this year and next but in a couple years we will be very glad this race was added.

[2MinsToPost]

Only going to speak on what I have an opinion on and can make sense of - taking this event to 2 days. Bad move and here is why, what I love about The Breeder's Cup, as I am sure others do as well, is that it is a day jam packed with 8 of the best of the best races. Now, what they have done is made the Cup an 11 Race event, but dragged it over 2 days in what seems an attempt to generate more revenue - I don't see any other reason. Why could they not just run all 11 Races on the same day and drop those 2 early races? It seems to these vigin eyes that this is a feebile attempt at generating more revenue not only for the host track but of course the host city as well.

I don't see, by the way, people changing plans as we speak to make sure they are at the host track to see those 3 races Friday evening - not too mention this question that BEGS to be asked -

Does ESPN expect to get any kind of ratings on their Friday telecast of these 3 Races?

Just my 2 cents - pack it all into 1 day and you have a blast - 1st post at say 10:30 am?

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

Does ESPN expect to get any kind of ratings on their Friday telecast of these 3 Races?

Just my 2 cents - pack it all into 1 day and you have a blast - 1st post at say 10:30 am?

I don't think ESPN gets any ratings...did you see the BC ratings from their telecast last year?? They cancelled Wire to Wire which was shown at 2 pm ET on Tuesday...what show gets any ratings at that time...evidently even at that odd time they decided to cancel it thinking anything would get better ratings. The general public doesn't care about the BC and never will. The Ky Derby is all people care about here and even that interest is fading rapidly. The Preakness has a little interest and the Belmont gets big interest only if you have a triple crown possibility. I am afraid in 10 years or less the BC will be a TVG or HRTV event in this country. I wish it wasn't the case, but hard to think otherwise.

No, ESPN I can't imagine expects ratings. It's a miracle I think they show the sport at all. I am appreciative for any coverage they have.

Just the unfortunate state of racing today. Very sad, but it ain't the 30s anymore.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

Does ESPN expect to get any kind of ratings on their Friday telecast of these 3 Races?

Just my 2 cents - pack it all into 1 day and you have a blast - 1st post at say 10:30 am?

I'm sure that sat morning TV ratings are not all that great plus you are now putting the start at 7:30 am Pacific time which seems a wee bit early for our left coast friends

[Cannon Shell]

I just find it hard to believe that there is now a $4 million dollar day of racing the day before the Breeders Cup and supposed racing fans seem to have only negatives to say?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I just find it hard to believe that there is now a $4 million dollar day of racing the day before the Breeders Cup and supposed racing fans seem to have only negatives to say?

I enjoy going to the BC, I enjoy betting the races, but I think it's overall effect on the game has been negative.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I enjoy going to the BC, I enjoy betting the races, but I think it's overall effect on the game has been negative.

I tend to agree with you that the overall effect has been negative but this is the hand we have been dealt and I find it hard to believe that poeple are complaining about another day of top class racing. I mean if you would rather spend the day before the big event betting a card like the one at CD this year ( and I did very well btw) or the one at Belmont last year than a day with 6 stakes races I'm not sure how to respond.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I just find it hard to believe that there is now a $4 million dollar day of racing the day before the Breeders Cup and supposed racing fans seem to have only negatives to say?

I think what you said earlier, you have to have a foundation to build a house.

Me, as I see it, the NTRA/BC and horse racing in general has no foundation at all. It has the house and has no idea what to do with it.

I would much rather see a SOLID product EVERY day, then two days a year.

This is one of those situations where the whole industry just needs to be BLOWN UP, restructured with knowledgeble, happy, go get them type people where money is 2nd on their mind, and success is 1st. It is like building a good college sports program. Some years you are all freshman, and you suck, make stupid mistakes, but you have the talent, you built and mold and structure and put your heart and soul into it, and boom, you have a successful program, with the right knowledge and will power.

my opinion.

[Scav]

I'll give you a perfect example and this might be a little extreme. IMAGINE, if you took a human being like Byk and put him in charge of the NTRA. He might not know everything about the industry, but he sure as hell know where to get the right information, and the right people to listen to, and STRUCTURE it well, for the OVERALL good of the industry and the horses. Money would be low on his list. He would force tracks to become part of a 'conference' or association and get things like uniformed medication rules. He would at least try. More so what I am trying to say, is that his personality and 'heart' is what is needed.

BYK for NTRA '08

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

I'll give you a perfect example and this might be a little extreme. IMAGINE, if you took a human being like Byk and put him in charge of the NTRA. He might not know everything about the industry, but he sure as hell know where to get the right information, and the right people to listen to, and STRUCTURE it well, for the OVERALL good of the industry and the horses. Money would be low on his list. He would force tracks to become part of a 'conference' or association and get things like uniformed medication rules. He would at least try. More so what I am trying to say, is that his personality and 'heart' is what is needed.

BYK for NTRA '08

I'm sure that BYK would be a great racing executive.
However money is what drives everything in every business.
Because of racing structure of having independent tracks being regulated by state authorities you can not force anyone to do anything. The states are not going to cede power ever. You would hope that the tracks would work together a bit more but in many instances they are competitors for the same customers.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Scavs you should be in charge of Steve's fan club.

Their was a point in there somewhere, not sure if I got it across

Need to get someone in there that knows how to build a solid 'program' and not just throw band aids over everything.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

I think what you said earlier, you have to have a foundation to build a house.

Me, as I see it, the NTRA/BC and horse racing in general has no foundation at all. It has the house and has no idea what to do with it.

I would much rather see a SOLID product EVERY day, then two days a year.

This is one of those situations where the whole industry just needs to be BLOWN UP, restructured with knowledgeble, happy, go get them type people where money is 2nd on their mind, and success is 1st. It is like building a good college sports program. Some years you are all freshman, and you suck, make stupid mistakes, but you have the talent, you built and mold and structure and put your heart and soul into it, and boom, you have a successful program, with the right knowledge and will power.

my opinion.

I have no idea what you are trying to say

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

Only going to speak on what I have an opinion on and can make sense of - taking this event to 2 days. Bad move and here is why, what I love about The Breeder's Cup, as I am sure others do as well, is that it is a day jam packed with 8 of the best of the best races. Now, what they have done is made the Cup an 11 Race event, but dragged it over 2 days in what seems an attempt to generate more revenue - I don't see any other reason. Why could they not just run all 11 Races on the same day and drop those 2 early races? It seems to these vigin eyes that this is a feebile attempt at generating more revenue not only for the host track but of course the host city as well.

I don't see, by the way, people changing plans as we speak to make sure they are at the host track to see those 3 races Friday evening - not too mention this question that BEGS to be asked -

Does ESPN expect to get any kind of ratings on their Friday telecast of these 3 Races?

Just my 2 cents - pack it all into 1 day and you have a blast - 1st post at say 10:30 am?

I actually went from about a 55 percent chance of going down for one day to about a 95 percent chance of going down for both days with this announcement. If I'm going to drive the 3 to 4 hours each way I want to be able to get two days of racing out of it. The BC Day is still going to have the normal 8 races so nothing changes for anyone that liked it the old way. Those of us that are excited about the new races now have an extra day on the racing calendar that I imagine ultimately will be enjoyed by even the cynics. Everyone is so worried about the BC Dirt Mile depleting the BC Sprint and Classic. Would a field out of these horses have really depleted it that much? And wouldn't it have made for a very fun BC race?

Discreet Cat
Silver Train
Badge of Silver
Sun King
Brother Derek
Lawyer Ron
Sharp Humor
Siren Lure
Wanderin Boy
Super Frolic
Mass Media
Commentator
Lewis Michael
Sir Greeley
War Front
It's No Joke
Magna Graduate
Papi Chullo
Straight Line
Awesome Twist

Obviously some of these horses might not have run but I'm sure there are plenty I am forgetting as well.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I actually went from about a 55 percent chance of going down for one day to about a 95 percent chance of going down for both days with this announcement. If I'm going to drive the 3 to 4 hours each way I want to be able to get two days of racing out of it. The BC Day is still going to have the normal 8 races so nothing changes for anyone that liked it the old way. Those of us that are excited about the new races now have an extra day on the racing calendar that I imagine ultimately will be enjoyed by even the cynics. Everyone is so worried about the BC Dirt Mile depleting the BC Sprint and Classic. Would a field out of these horses have really depleted it that much? And wouldn't it have made for a very fun BC race?

Discreet Cat
Silver Train
Badge of Silver
Sun King
Brother Derek
Lawyer Ron
Sharp Humor
Siren Lure
Wanderin Boy
Super Frolic
Mass Media
Commentator
Lewis Michael
Sir Greeley
War Front
It's No Joke
Magna Graduate
Papi Chullo
Straight Line
Awesome Twist

Obviously some of these horses might not have run but I'm sure there are plenty I am forgetting as well.

I just think if you are going to make it a BC dirt mile keep it a mile and if you can't fit 14 horses some years...so be it. You just want stinking Sir Greeley in the BC!!

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I hear what you are saying, but my problem is some years the race won't be a one turn mile which is what I think they were aiming at. Big difference between a one turn mile and a two turn mile or mile and 70 yards. I'm cool with the F&M sprint and 2 year old turf because I'd bet people running on grass if I could. But if you are going to do the mile race it should be a one turn longer sprint and not what they are going to do this year.

Yeah, well that goes with the idea I favor of going to 12 races and running 6 each at two different tracks with staggered starts like the Sunshine Millions. With 20 minutes between races there is actually a chance of viewers staying to watch the next race. I don't know how many times I've had friends somewhat interested in racing on TV, watch the race and kind of get into it, and then find out it is 35 minutes until the next race and lose all interest. Plus with two track you can be assured of always being able to run every race at the proper distance. I know a lot of people hate the idea of two tracks but it would solve the problem of the dirt mile being completely different every year.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Yeah, well that goes with the idea I favor of going to 12 races and running 6 each at two different tracks with staggered starts like the Sunshine Millions. With 20 minutes between races there is actually a chance of viewers staying to watch the next race. I don't know how many times I've had friends somewhat interested in racing on TV, watch the race and kind of get into it, and then find out it is 35 minutes until the next race and lose all interest. Plus with two track you can be assured of always being able to run every race at the proper distance. I know a lot of people hate the idea of two tracks but it would solve the problem of the dirt mile being completely different every year.

I don't think a race has much interest for the casual fan unless there is some familiarity with the runners. What would be fun about watching a bunch of horses you've never heard of run around a track for 1-2 minutes? Making the spacing between races shorter leaves less time to develop any kind of story about the upcoming race. I think that would be a mistake.

I agree with the point Linny made earlier. It's already a problem explaining to sports fans who are not yet racing fans that our "World Series" is not just a single race to see who's the best. The more races we add, the less chance the best will face the best.

Steve's list of fillies and mares that have won or nearly won the Sprint was impressive. How many of those would have passed the race had there been a separate race for F&M's?

--Dunbar

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

I don't think a race has much interest for the casual fan unless there is some familiarity with the runners. What would be fun about watching a bunch of horses you've never heard of run around a track for 1-2 minutes? Making the spacing between races shorter leaves less time to develop any kind of story about the upcoming race. I think that would be a mistake.

I agree with the point Linny made earlier. It's already a problem explaining to sports fans who are not yet racing fans that our "World Series" is not just a single race to see who's the best. The more races we add, the less chance the best will face the best.

Steve's list of fillies and mares that have won or nearly won the Sprint was impressive. How many of those would have passed the race had there been a separate race for F&M's?

--Dunbar

In recent days, Xtra Heat would have gone in a F&M Sprint (and destroyed the field in '01.)

Have to think Malibu Mint this year would have gone as well...

[Dunbar]

Thinking about this some more. The amount of time that ESPN gave to the BC broadcast this year was pretty ambitious. Only a hard core fan (like most here) is going to commit to sitting down for, what, 6 hours of racing.

Rather than add 3 more races and a 2nd day of racing, I think it would have been a better idea to go to 2 days with the current lineup of 8 races. On the 2nd day you could have just 2 or 3 races, and the feeling would be more of a Championship. The Turf and the Classic would be on the 2nd day. Maybe the Distaff. That would make a nice 1.5-hour broadcast. The first day would have the 5 (or 6) other BC races, in a 3-4 hour broadcast.

--Dunbar

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I have had to deal with this as well. You raise some interesting points about two locations. Not sure if I agree or disagree but it is making me think, which is always good.

I have a feeling two tracks would also boost overall attendance and overall handle. The major issue is that trainers and owners could have horses running at different tracks which is undesirable on the biggest day of racing. That is why it will probably never happen.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I have a feeling two tracks would also boost overall attendance and overall handle. The major issue is that trainers and owners could have horses running at different tracks which is undesirable on the biggest day of racing. That is why it will probably never happen.

Jockey issues as well. Big time horse with one rider the whole season...then for biggest race not on him. Don't think trainers would go for that either...if they have two stars at different tracks.